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Well, let's build something here. The current article argues in its opening that "nobody cares" ... The immediate retort to any "nobody cares" statement -- bef

Well, let's build something here. The current article argues in its opening that "nobody cares" ... The immediate retort to any "nobody cares" statement -- before one even finishes the sentence -- is "then it's probably for a good reason." It's counter-productive and frames your argument from the "weak outsider" perspective. So if we ought to frame our argument from a position of competence rather than insecurity (my original point) and assuming people care is incorrect (your point), what ought we say to help people protect themselves?

brnt 6y ago
If the subject comes up, I ask the question: "how to you think Facebook makes money?" I try to educate them on the business side of their social media: what does it look like when you start a Facebook ad-campaign? Select users by criteria, sometimes very complex and precise criteria. How do you feel about an advertiser selecting $subgroup-closely-resembling-partner-in-conversation? I don't think I'm changing many minds, but I do try to offer a view most will never encounter themselves.
- serial_dev 6y ago
  This argument is the least likely to make me care about privacy (though in some cases it could work). "Advertisers will be able to select you based on your history"... For what? For showing you an ad for the cool pants company that produces just the kind of pants you've always wanted? For an awesome, in-depth coding course? I'd rather get relevant ads than generic crap that I don't care about, even if it makes me spend more money.
  - Grimm1 6y ago
    To use your profile to target you based on political ideology to influence your opinion in ways that can possibly be against your own interest and to polarize you against other people. Advertising on FB was and still is even with their newer protections used wayyy outside of selling you new pants.
    - cle 6y ago
      But that's an even weaker rhetorical strategy. You're asking people to admit that they're susceptible to psychological manipulation. It's akin to asking them to admit "I'm weak and have no control over my beliefs". The people who are most vulnerable to that kind of manipulation are exactly the ones who are unlikely to respond well to this kind of rhetoric.
      - Grimm1 6y ago
        I'm responding the the question the op posed "For what?" and then proceeded to offer the most innocuous thing advertising does when there are far more well known malicious things happening every day. I agree this won't convince people for the reason you've stated I just want to make sure we're all on the same page about the actual level of harm that happens.
        serial_dev 6y ago
        I'm not in the group of people who would not accept I'm being manipulated. I believe that I'm constantly being manipulated by the media, anyway. If a ~100 character Facebook ad can change my political position, then maybe it is for the better?
        Grimm1 6y ago
        Seeing the same message over and over and over and over has been proven to have an effect subconsciously.
- inanutshellus 6y ago
  I think you may not get much traction w/ "boo hoo, facebook is rich" or "oh no, facebook knows what i like". I mentioned this earlier, but IMHO the best answer is one taken from Netflix's Social Dilemma: "Facebook makes money by selling a guaranteed change behavior. Your behavior."
deleted 6y ago
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brnt 6y ago

If the subject comes up, I ask the question: "how to you think Facebook makes money?" I try to educate them on the business side of their social media: what does it look like when you start a Facebook ad-campaign? Select users by criteria, sometimes very complex and precise criteria. How do you feel about an advertiser selecting $subgroup-closely-resembling-partner-in-conversation? I don't think I'm changing many minds, but I do try to offer a view most will never encounter themselves.

serial_dev 6y ago
This argument is the least likely to make me care about privacy (though in some cases it could work). "Advertisers will be able to select you based on your history"... For what? For showing you an ad for the cool pants company that produces just the kind of pants you've always wanted? For an awesome, in-depth coding course? I'd rather get relevant ads than generic crap that I don't care about, even if it makes me spend more money.
- Grimm1 6y ago
  To use your profile to target you based on political ideology to influence your opinion in ways that can possibly be against your own interest and to polarize you against other people. Advertising on FB was and still is even with their newer protections used wayyy outside of selling you new pants.
  - cle 6y ago
    But that's an even weaker rhetorical strategy. You're asking people to admit that they're susceptible to psychological manipulation. It's akin to asking them to admit "I'm weak and have no control over my beliefs". The people who are most vulnerable to that kind of manipulation are exactly the ones who are unlikely to respond well to this kind of rhetoric.
    - Grimm1 6y ago
      I'm responding the the question the op posed "For what?" and then proceeded to offer the most innocuous thing advertising does when there are far more well known malicious things happening every day. I agree this won't convince people for the reason you've stated I just want to make sure we're all on the same page about the actual level of harm that happens.
      - serial_dev 6y ago
        I'm not in the group of people who would not accept I'm being manipulated. I believe that I'm constantly being manipulated by the media, anyway. If a ~100 character Facebook ad can change my political position, then maybe it is for the better?
        Grimm1 6y ago
        Seeing the same message over and over and over and over has been proven to have an effect subconsciously.
inanutshellus 6y ago
I think you may not get much traction w/ "boo hoo, facebook is rich" or "oh no, facebook knows what i like". I mentioned this earlier, but IMHO the best answer is one taken from Netflix's Social Dilemma: "Facebook makes money by selling a guaranteed change behavior. Your behavior."

deleted 6y ago

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