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> praise how insanely ambitious the founder was If this isn't a warning sign of a spectacular failure, I don't know what is. Not to mention praising it, afte

> praise how insanely ambitious the founder was If this isn't a warning sign of a spectacular failure, I don't know what is. Not to mention praising it, after all the ink spilled on "rockstar" "ninja" types and how bad they are, yet they still get kudos and praise. If you ever have a manager that espouses the "we don't want the heroic cowboy type here", run, because that's EXACTLY what they want.

ramzyo 6y ago
It’s interesting you say that, because that’s what I tell people on my team, and I mean it.
viridian 6y ago
Why would you automatically assume a hiring manager wants the exact opposite of what he/she claims? I tend to take people at their word.
- PragmaticPulp 6y ago
  Take all absolute statements and mind-reading tricks on HN with a grain of salt. If a manager says they don’t want heroics, it’s not reasonable to assume that they actually do want heroics but they’re somehow trying to communicate that to the team by speaking in opposites. If someone says they want one thing then asks for the opposite, verbalize that you were following the original directive. Have a conversation like professionals and sort it out. This HN comments that treat employers and managers like a foreign species that will only lie and abuse you are really not healthy. Learning how to establish healthy professional relationships with your managers as actual human beings is a critical workplace skill.
UncleMeat 6y ago
I don’t want heroes on my team. It isn’t sustainable. Heroics are discouraged in performance reviews and promotion considerations. Nobody will die if people aren’t working nights and weekends. If I see people engaging in what seems like heroics I will have a very serious chat with them to understand why they are doing it and make absolutely certain that it isn’t coming from any pressure to do so.
- notwedtm 6y ago
  This reads like an idealized version of reality. Budgets exists, deadlines are a thing. "Don't be a hero" sounds like the mantra of an HR department at an insurance company; not what you want to hear from a founder trying to disrupt an industry. Heroics can exist without them being a standardized thing. There are occasions when you need people who are willing to move mountains to get something done, and demonizing those kinds of efforts and the people who engage in them will make them scarce when you actually are in need.
  - cat199 6y ago
    > a founder trying to disrupt an industry. a founder should be 'trying to' make a quality product that fits a need, not 'disrupt an industry' - 'industry disruption' is a consequence, not a goal - if one is seeking the latter without focusing on the former, ones priorities are skewed, and likely for reasons of promoting one's own self-importance.
    - tharne 6y ago
      > a founder should be 'trying to' make a quality product that fits a need, not 'disrupt an industry' This 1000%. The frequent use of the term "disrupt", just shows how much the culture has descended into degeneracy. When entrepreneurs and their backers are no longer making even a pretense toward things like progress, improvement, or even just running a profitable business, you know things have gotten bad. It seems like the model now is, "Hey, let's see if we can f--- up industry X, who cares if we actually improve anything or if our business is even viable, so long as we turn some established part of the economy on its head."
      - a123b456c 6y ago
        > The frequent use of the term "disrupt", just shows how much the culture has descended into degeneracy. This is an extraordinary claim.
        6y ago
numbsafari 6y ago
Your logic seems rather self-contradictory here: "I can't believe an organization would _praise_ the rockstar mentality" "If an organization doesn't praise the rockstar mentality, they are lying". As others have noted, I tend to take people at their word. Of course, you can also ask people on the team during the interview process if they feel like that's true or not.
- thelastwave 6y ago
  I don't think he said the absence of a positive affirmation, but the positive assertion of a negative value. Not that they didn't praise rockstars, but they specifically came out against them.
- michaelcampbell 6y ago
  "If an organization doesn't praise the rockstar mentality, they are lying". The only that's said that is you.
thelastwave 6y ago
> a manager that espouses the "we don't want", that's EXACTLY what they want. How does that work? Sincere question.
- michaelcampbell 6y ago
  IME often they're over-compensating or projecting for a thing they know they want people to hear that they don't want to admit to. It's "correct" to say "work-life balance" and "no heroes", but it doesn't generally NEED to be said in any normal circumstance; that they do say it is often because they do want the opposite of those things so they feel the need to point it out. To me it's a form of the same thing that name-callers have when they call their adversaries names and you realize the charge they're levying against others is exactly what they themselves are/are doing; because they know they have whatever bad quality it's on their mind.

ramzyo 6y ago

It’s interesting you say that, because that’s what I tell people on my team, and I mean it.

viridian 6y ago

Why would you automatically assume a hiring manager wants the exact opposite of what he/she claims? I tend to take people at their word.

PragmaticPulp 6y ago
Take all absolute statements and mind-reading tricks on HN with a grain of salt. If a manager says they don’t want heroics, it’s not reasonable to assume that they actually do want heroics but they’re somehow trying to communicate that to the team by speaking in opposites. If someone says they want one thing then asks for the opposite, verbalize that you were following the original directive. Have a conversation like professionals and sort it out. This HN comments that treat employers and managers like a foreign species that will only lie and abuse you are really not healthy. Learning how to establish healthy professional relationships with your managers as actual human beings is a critical workplace skill.

UncleMeat 6y ago

I don’t want heroes on my team. It isn’t sustainable. Heroics are discouraged in performance reviews and promotion considerations. Nobody will die if people aren’t working nights and weekends. If I see people engaging in what seems like heroics I will have a very serious chat with them to understand why they are doing it and make absolutely certain that it isn’t coming from any pressure to do so.

notwedtm 6y ago
This reads like an idealized version of reality. Budgets exists, deadlines are a thing. "Don't be a hero" sounds like the mantra of an HR department at an insurance company; not what you want to hear from a founder trying to disrupt an industry. Heroics can exist without them being a standardized thing. There are occasions when you need people who are willing to move mountains to get something done, and demonizing those kinds of efforts and the people who engage in them will make them scarce when you actually are in need.
- cat199 6y ago
  > a founder trying to disrupt an industry. a founder should be 'trying to' make a quality product that fits a need, not 'disrupt an industry' - 'industry disruption' is a consequence, not a goal - if one is seeking the latter without focusing on the former, ones priorities are skewed, and likely for reasons of promoting one's own self-importance.
  - tharne 6y ago
    > a founder should be 'trying to' make a quality product that fits a need, not 'disrupt an industry' This 1000%. The frequent use of the term "disrupt", just shows how much the culture has descended into degeneracy. When entrepreneurs and their backers are no longer making even a pretense toward things like progress, improvement, or even just running a profitable business, you know things have gotten bad. It seems like the model now is, "Hey, let's see if we can f--- up industry X, who cares if we actually improve anything or if our business is even viable, so long as we turn some established part of the economy on its head."
    - a123b456c 6y ago
      > The frequent use of the term "disrupt", just shows how much the culture has descended into degeneracy. This is an extraordinary claim.
      - 6y ago

numbsafari 6y ago

Your logic seems rather self-contradictory here: "I can't believe an organization would _praise_ the rockstar mentality" "If an organization doesn't praise the rockstar mentality, they are lying". As others have noted, I tend to take people at their word. Of course, you can also ask people on the team during the interview process if they feel like that's true or not.

thelastwave 6y ago
I don't think he said the absence of a positive affirmation, but the positive assertion of a negative value. Not that they didn't praise rockstars, but they specifically came out against them.
michaelcampbell 6y ago
"If an organization doesn't praise the rockstar mentality, they are lying". The only that's said that is you.

thelastwave 6y ago

> a manager that espouses the "we don't want", that's EXACTLY what they want. How does that work? Sincere question.

michaelcampbell 6y ago
IME often they're over-compensating or projecting for a thing they know they want people to hear that they don't want to admit to. It's "correct" to say "work-life balance" and "no heroes", but it doesn't generally NEED to be said in any normal circumstance; that they do say it is often because they do want the opposite of those things so they feel the need to point it out. To me it's a form of the same thing that name-callers have when they call their adversaries names and you realize the charge they're levying against others is exactly what they themselves are/are doing; because they know they have whatever bad quality it's on their mind.