5 ms·

The first problem reported with plasticizers was endocrine disruption [1]. This has been linked to the reduction of fetal anogenital distance, a key marker in d

The first problem reported with plasticizers was endocrine disruption [1]. This has been linked to the reduction of fetal anogenital distance, a key marker in determining the sex of a fetus [2]. This causes various reproductive disorders [3]. I am convinced that this contributes to the apparent feminization of human societies, a topic that apparently cannot be brought up for discussion in the US due to the ludicrous contemporary political climate. 1: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0016648014004225 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S001664801... 2: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16079079/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16079079/ 3: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00204-018-2350-5 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00204-018-2350-5

cassepipe 6y ago
>the apparent feminization of human societies Wow, could you elaborate or backup this claim? Do you mean that it explains that there are more female born than male? Probably not since you say it can't be talked about so you're hinting at a more ideological and thus controversial claim : That masculine values are on the down or something of that kind. If that's your opinion, well it is a classic overheard reactionary argument about the pacification of social relationships and how war forge "real" men and you just disappointed me.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- bumby 6y ago
  I don’t know, but they may be referring to studies that postulate environmental (as well as other) factors contributing to the general lowering of testosterone and fertility in men over the past few decades. https://uk.reuters.com/article/health-testosterone-levels-dc-idUKKIM16976320061101 https://uk.reuters.com/article/health-testosterone-levels-dc...
- yarcob 6y ago
  > could you elaborate or backup this claim I'm pretty sure they can't. The preceding paragraph contains 3 links to references, which is a pretty transparent attempt to make it seem like the incendiary sentence that follows isn't completely made up hogwash.
  - User23 6y ago
    Your stating how GP's post makes you feel followed by completely dismissing the evidence GP offers and deciding its truth value based solely on your emotional response is exactly what GP is talking about.
    - gimboland 6y ago
      "Pretty sure" is a thought/judgement, not a feeling.
    - yarcob 6y ago
      > completely dismissing the evidence GP offers I don't see any evidence for the "apparent feminization of human societies", because that term is just incendiary bullshit and doesn't mean anything.
      - bumby 6y ago
        In the vein of trying to follow the HN guidelines to assume good faith, my assumption was that were referring to the overall lowering of male testosterone as the “feminization of societies”.
        yarcob 6y ago
        But sometimes you need to call out pseudoscientific bullshit for what it is, instead of bending over backwards to find an acceptable interpretation of what someone could have meant when they said dumb shit.
        bumby 6y ago
- scns 6y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bisphenol_A?wprov=sfla1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bisphenol_A?wprov=sfla1 It was used in baby bottle mouthpieces and dummys as a plasticizer.
- User23 6y ago
  Parent is unintentionally supporting grandparent's point. In any event the secular testosterone decline[1] corresponds roughly with the mass production of consumer plastic goods. No way to tease apart all the confounding variables though so it could be something else causing that. [1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17895324/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17895324/ and many many many others.
  - buckminster 6y ago
    Average testicle size has been shrinking for decades too. And as you say, nobody knows why.
primroot 6y ago
Your comment about the political climate made me remember this. I cannot find the specific reference but in one of his lectures (on Youtube), Sapolsky talks about how some gay people felt offended in the 70's by research about the relation between brain structure and sexual orientation, since they felt it treated their sexual orientation as a pathology. Sapolsky contrasts it with the more recent enthusiasm about similar research, because people felt it would prove being gay was not a matter of choice or bad nurture. In political contexts, people blindly replace connotation for implication. Whereas implication is a concern of Logic (and hence, Science), connotation is a concern of intuition (or should I say, instinct) about constantly changing cultural ideals.
- cassepipe 6y ago
  I have seen that lecture and it's great but please see my comment below and consider that the parent may not be that lone hero of hard science and facts against the politics of emotion which I suspect is the narrative it's trying to establish. (It's a trap ;)
FrozenVoid 6y ago
The plastic/oil industry likely subsidizes that political stuff so the pitchforks will not come for them.
hnick 6y ago
> apparent feminization of human societies I have heard something similar is happening to domestic dogs too, which is very interesting, but makes sense as they will be exposed to a lot of what we are. I have no idea what to search for to bring that study up though. I did find one study about BPA levels in canned food causing marked changes just after a few weeks but that's a very small part of the whole picture.

cassepipe 6y ago

>the apparent feminization of human societies Wow, could you elaborate or backup this claim? Do you mean that it explains that there are more female born than male? Probably not since you say it can't be talked about so you're hinting at a more ideological and thus controversial claim : That masculine values are on the down or something of that kind. If that's your opinion, well it is a classic overheard reactionary argument about the pacification of social relationships and how war forge "real" men and you just disappointed me.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
bumby 6y ago
I don’t know, but they may be referring to studies that postulate environmental (as well as other) factors contributing to the general lowering of testosterone and fertility in men over the past few decades. https://uk.reuters.com/article/health-testosterone-levels-dc-idUKKIM16976320061101 https://uk.reuters.com/article/health-testosterone-levels-dc...
yarcob 6y ago
> could you elaborate or backup this claim I'm pretty sure they can't. The preceding paragraph contains 3 links to references, which is a pretty transparent attempt to make it seem like the incendiary sentence that follows isn't completely made up hogwash.
- User23 6y ago
  Your stating how GP's post makes you feel followed by completely dismissing the evidence GP offers and deciding its truth value based solely on your emotional response is exactly what GP is talking about.
  - gimboland 6y ago
    "Pretty sure" is a thought/judgement, not a feeling.
  - yarcob 6y ago
    > completely dismissing the evidence GP offers I don't see any evidence for the "apparent feminization of human societies", because that term is just incendiary bullshit and doesn't mean anything.
    - bumby 6y ago
      In the vein of trying to follow the HN guidelines to assume good faith, my assumption was that were referring to the overall lowering of male testosterone as the “feminization of societies”.
      - yarcob 6y ago
        But sometimes you need to call out pseudoscientific bullshit for what it is, instead of bending over backwards to find an acceptable interpretation of what someone could have meant when they said dumb shit.
        bumby 6y ago
scns 6y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bisphenol_A?wprov=sfla1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bisphenol_A?wprov=sfla1 It was used in baby bottle mouthpieces and dummys as a plasticizer.
User23 6y ago
Parent is unintentionally supporting grandparent's point. In any event the secular testosterone decline[1] corresponds roughly with the mass production of consumer plastic goods. No way to tease apart all the confounding variables though so it could be something else causing that. [1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17895324/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17895324/ and many many many others.
- buckminster 6y ago
  Average testicle size has been shrinking for decades too. And as you say, nobody knows why.

primroot 6y ago

Your comment about the political climate made me remember this. I cannot find the specific reference but in one of his lectures (on Youtube), Sapolsky talks about how some gay people felt offended in the 70's by research about the relation between brain structure and sexual orientation, since they felt it treated their sexual orientation as a pathology. Sapolsky contrasts it with the more recent enthusiasm about similar research, because people felt it would prove being gay was not a matter of choice or bad nurture. In political contexts, people blindly replace connotation for implication. Whereas implication is a concern of Logic (and hence, Science), connotation is a concern of intuition (or should I say, instinct) about constantly changing cultural ideals.

cassepipe 6y ago
I have seen that lecture and it's great but please see my comment below and consider that the parent may not be that lone hero of hard science and facts against the politics of emotion which I suspect is the narrative it's trying to establish. (It's a trap ;)

FrozenVoid 6y ago

The plastic/oil industry likely subsidizes that political stuff so the pitchforks will not come for them.

hnick 6y ago

> apparent feminization of human societies I have heard something similar is happening to domestic dogs too, which is very interesting, but makes sense as they will be exposed to a lot of what we are. I have no idea what to search for to bring that study up though. I did find one study about BPA levels in canned food causing marked changes just after a few weeks but that's a very small part of the whole picture.