4 ms·

Yes. And it’s a kind of debt that actively disincentives getting a raise if that raise pushes you just above 50k. Since at that point you’ll start owing Lambd

Yes. And it’s a kind of debt that actively disincentives getting a raise if that raise pushes you just above 50k. Since at that point you’ll start owing Lambda school 17% of your salary for 2 years. It actually does what people who don’t understand progressive tax rates think the tax system does. Can you imagine going to Lambda school, not getting a good education, not getting a much higher paying job, then being stuck unable to get incremental raises past $50,000 so you don’t end up down $8,500 for 2 years?

jokethrowaway 6y ago
The only difference is that people can opt in lambda school but they don't get to choose with progressive tax rates. The voluntariness of a transaction makes the difference between a payment and theft, between consensual sex and rape. Progressive taxes will just punish high middle class people for creating more value than low middle class people, making it harder for them to join the class of actual rich people who can structure their income so as to pay minimal taxes (like big corps do).
- learc83 6y ago
  You’re missing the point of the analogy. Progressive taxation doesn’t produce a cliff where you’re potentially better off if you make less money. The higher rates only apply to money over the threshold. Lambda school works the way many people think the US tax system works (but doesn’t). When you make over X, all of your money is taxed at Y. So it’s better to make X - 1 than X + 1.
  - mhaymo 6y ago
    Only if you place no value on paying off your ISA. Once the ISA is paid off, the "cliff" disappears. Obviously this is quite different to taxes.
    - FemmeAndroid 6y ago
      Your ISA is a sunk cost. Obviously, if you can afford to, many people will be better off in the long term having it paid off, but going from making $4,208 a month at a $49,500 salary, then getting a small raise to $50,000 and making $3,493/month is not something a lot of people can afford. Especially when you consider how that $715/month you're losing by bumping your income could be going to debt that won't expire if you just wait out the 5 years under that cap. This is especially true if you've had a few years under $50,000 before even having the chance to edge up over $50k. It can very much be in your financial interest to not take a raise, if offered.
    - learc83 6y ago
      ISA expires after 5 years, so there's definitely a range where making more money during that 5 years will cost you more overall.
sampsonitify 6y ago
I find it weird how often the criticisms don't cite anything real. https://lambdaschool.com/isa https://lambdaschool.com/isa is there data, and I am sure there is more. Can you reference your post to what they state they charge for?
- FemmeAndroid 6y ago
  Yeah, that's it. "Once you begin making at least $50,000 a year, you will owe Lambda 17% of your monthly income until you reach the cap or the terms of your ISA expire." So if you go from $49,999 to $50,000 you now owe them $50,000 * 0.17, or $8,500. "Now wait just a minute, FemmeAndroid. If you're just getting a raise at your current job, that won't be covered unless you're a web dev." Now I don't know about you, but I like doing good work, and I'm a developer at heart, even if I don't have a fancy CS degree or even a Bootcamp diploma. But every desk job I've had has ended up involving development, since I can usually help automate parts of my job. It's worked out well for me, and I'd imagine anyone who comes out of a bootcamp like this without a new job will at least try and leverage their coding experience to improve their current job, get a raise, or get a promotion. Your job might not be 'web developer' but your job will start to involve the skills you learned at Lambda school. 'You will owe payments toward your ISA if your job requires skills you learned at Lambda School, even if your title isn't "Web Developer" or "Data Scientist."' Heck, even if you start a business, and grow it from the ground up, as soon as you make $50,000 a year, you immediately drop back down $8,500. (They explicitly call out 'Self-employed' as an eligible job on the page linked.) Even if you just get a second job that reasonably only makes a bit of money, you fall into this trap. (They explicitly call out 'Second Job' on the page linked.) You will be stuck in this catch-22 of not having an incentive to make over $50,000 unless you can make the jump to a little over $60,000 or so for 60 months. That's point 3 on the linked website. "[You are bound by the terms of the ISA until you pay 17% for 24 months, you pay out $30k, or...] You did not make over $4,167/month or did not have a qualifying job, and therefore "deferred" your monthly payments for a total of 60 months." All the above quotes come from your linked page. I was just simplifying the facts of that very page into a fairly big problem with how it's structured. Heck, you can even see what I'm talking about by using their own calculator. Go to https://lambdaschool.com/isa-calculator https://lambdaschool.com/isa-calculator and jump between making $49,500 and $50,000 a year, and you'll see you go from owing nothing to owing nothing a month to $715 a month while only making $4,208. That's a huge leap.

jokethrowaway 6y ago

The only difference is that people can opt in lambda school but they don't get to choose with progressive tax rates. The voluntariness of a transaction makes the difference between a payment and theft, between consensual sex and rape. Progressive taxes will just punish high middle class people for creating more value than low middle class people, making it harder for them to join the class of actual rich people who can structure their income so as to pay minimal taxes (like big corps do).

learc83 6y ago
You’re missing the point of the analogy. Progressive taxation doesn’t produce a cliff where you’re potentially better off if you make less money. The higher rates only apply to money over the threshold. Lambda school works the way many people think the US tax system works (but doesn’t). When you make over X, all of your money is taxed at Y. So it’s better to make X - 1 than X + 1.
- mhaymo 6y ago
  Only if you place no value on paying off your ISA. Once the ISA is paid off, the "cliff" disappears. Obviously this is quite different to taxes.
  - FemmeAndroid 6y ago
    Your ISA is a sunk cost. Obviously, if you can afford to, many people will be better off in the long term having it paid off, but going from making $4,208 a month at a $49,500 salary, then getting a small raise to $50,000 and making $3,493/month is not something a lot of people can afford. Especially when you consider how that $715/month you're losing by bumping your income could be going to debt that won't expire if you just wait out the 5 years under that cap. This is especially true if you've had a few years under $50,000 before even having the chance to edge up over $50k. It can very much be in your financial interest to not take a raise, if offered.
  - learc83 6y ago
    ISA expires after 5 years, so there's definitely a range where making more money during that 5 years will cost you more overall.

sampsonitify 6y ago

I find it weird how often the criticisms don't cite anything real. https://lambdaschool.com/isa https://lambdaschool.com/isa is there data, and I am sure there is more. Can you reference your post to what they state they charge for?

FemmeAndroid 6y ago
Yeah, that's it. "Once you begin making at least $50,000 a year, you will owe Lambda 17% of your monthly income until you reach the cap or the terms of your ISA expire." So if you go from $49,999 to $50,000 you now owe them $50,000 * 0.17, or $8,500. "Now wait just a minute, FemmeAndroid. If you're just getting a raise at your current job, that won't be covered unless you're a web dev." Now I don't know about you, but I like doing good work, and I'm a developer at heart, even if I don't have a fancy CS degree or even a Bootcamp diploma. But every desk job I've had has ended up involving development, since I can usually help automate parts of my job. It's worked out well for me, and I'd imagine anyone who comes out of a bootcamp like this without a new job will at least try and leverage their coding experience to improve their current job, get a raise, or get a promotion. Your job might not be 'web developer' but your job will start to involve the skills you learned at Lambda school. 'You will owe payments toward your ISA if your job requires skills you learned at Lambda School, even if your title isn't "Web Developer" or "Data Scientist."' Heck, even if you start a business, and grow it from the ground up, as soon as you make $50,000 a year, you immediately drop back down $8,500. (They explicitly call out 'Self-employed' as an eligible job on the page linked.) Even if you just get a second job that reasonably only makes a bit of money, you fall into this trap. (They explicitly call out 'Second Job' on the page linked.) You will be stuck in this catch-22 of not having an incentive to make over $50,000 unless you can make the jump to a little over $60,000 or so for 60 months. That's point 3 on the linked website. "[You are bound by the terms of the ISA until you pay 17% for 24 months, you pay out $30k, or...] You did not make over $4,167/month or did not have a qualifying job, and therefore "deferred" your monthly payments for a total of 60 months." All the above quotes come from your linked page. I was just simplifying the facts of that very page into a fairly big problem with how it's structured. Heck, you can even see what I'm talking about by using their own calculator. Go to https://lambdaschool.com/isa-calculator https://lambdaschool.com/isa-calculator and jump between making $49,500 and $50,000 a year, and you'll see you go from owing nothing to owing nothing a month to $715 a month while only making $4,208. That's a huge leap.