5 ms·

What I can't understand is how people can visit North Korea and not feel disgusted by giving support for that regime. I believe North Korea is facing another f

What I can't understand is how people can visit North Korea and not feel disgusted by giving support for that regime. I believe North Korea is facing another famine this year. Given the conditions in North Korea and the apparent iron grip its regime has on power is it better not to provide food aid? I can't decide for myself if it's better, for the long term, to let the nation starve and not help the people out or to feed them. I don't see a clear cut right or wrong way to view aid to North Korea. It's a disturbing case.

elliottcarlson 15y ago
The problem is that visitors require a guide - someone who will hide the true nature of NK to them and ensuring they only see what they are allowed to see. Even though there has been a good amount of hidden camera footage exposed, or articles such as this one - there are plenty of people who may not really be aware of what is really going on there behind the scenes.
- MichaelApproved 15y ago
  That reminds me of Nazi Germany when they went so far as to create a fake concentration camp for the Red Cross to visit.
  - dantheman 15y ago
    If you're interested in Theresienstadt (the concentration camp) there's a great documentary called Prisoner of Paradise. It tells the story a Jewish filmmaker forced to make a propaganda film about the camp. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner_of_Paradise http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner_of_Paradise
- abrown28 15y ago
  A lot of the approved video is disturbing to me.
- lotusleaf1987 15y ago
  Vice Guide has a great documentary available streaming on Netflix. It was so depressing/surreal/horrifying all at once.
  - unreal37 15y ago
    Vice Guide was very interesting. He was visiting large tourist sites, and was the only person there. Visited a gift shop, where he was the only person the attendant probably saw that day.
aw3c2 15y ago
And so is our lifestyle. We rely on the exploitation of the rest of the world but close our eyes and pretend everything is fine. After all, the bad things happen in far-far-away to people of different races and cultures.
- yequalsx 15y ago
  I think it's fair to bring up exploitation of resources, and labor conditions in other countries so that rich countries can live at a higher standard of living. But there is a difference from visiting an exploited country to visiting a country whose regime exploits its own people. Would you agree with this?
- carussell 15y ago
  Assuming there's legitimate reasoning behind them, and not just "I don't like it", could someone explain to me why this comment got so many downvotes?
pstack 15y ago
It's our way. We do business with China and visit them regularly, even though we know that much of what makes their manufacturing industry so competitive is the use of slave prison labor. It's weird how we decide what people deserve "liberation" and what people we just shrug our shoulders at and keep supporting, in one form or another, the government that is oppressing them.
- cynicalkane 15y ago
  We do business with China and visit them regularly, even though we know that much of what makes their manufacturing industry so competitive is the use of slave prison labor Though the conditions of labor in China seem shocking to comfortable Americans, they are not, in general, "slave prison labor".
  - unreal37 15y ago
    How about this. I visited China last year, and saw/heard about the following. Say you want to build a new building. The workers are brought to the construction site, and they live on the site 24/7, taking shifts to sleep in a small cot. When they are not sleeping they are working (7 days a week). They do not see their families for months during the job. They work on site for several months, and will only receive pay after the building is done. If you have to leave the site for some reason (say a sick or dying relative, or you get sick yourself) before the building is done, you forfeit all your pay. You could have worked 6 months on a job, and if you hurt yourself, you go home without even $1. It's a deplorable condition being forced to live where you work. It's a prison, even if voluntary.
- 100tonmantis 15y ago
  Source for "slave prison labor" in China please.
  - pstack 15y ago
    http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/mpapps/pagetools/print/news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4515197.stm http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/mpapps/pagetools/print/news.bbc.co... "Using their vast pools of free labour, China's prisons produce everything from green tea to coal, paperclips to footballs, medical gloves to high-grade optical equipment." http://www.goiam.org/index.php/news/iam-news/2007-iam-news-archives/4610-senate-hearing-examines-sweatshop-conditions-in-china http://www.goiam.org/index.php/news/iam-news/2007-iam-news-a... "Prison Labor is also being exploited in China, according to executive director of the Laogai Research Foundation Harry Wu, who said prison laborers make garments, electronic components, coffee mugs and toys that end up in U.S. stores. “The Chinese government continues to use forced labor to make goods, condones sweatshop conditions in its factories, and refuses to allow workers to create independent unions-- is it really any wonder that low-quality, harmful toys are being exported to the US and into the hands of our children?” said Wu, who spent 19 years in a Chinese prison. Wal-Mart was singled out for their role in allowing the exploitation of cheap Chinese labor. “Wal-Mart bears a lion’s share of responsibility for pushing the toy industry into a region where product safety and worker safety inspection is virtually nonexistent,” said Bama Athreya, executive director of the International Labor Rights Forum." http://commdocs.house.gov/committees/intlrel/hfa45502.000/hfa45502_0.HTM http://commdocs.house.gov/committees/intlrel/hfa45502.000/hf... 1998 FORCED LABOR IN CHINA - HEARING BEFORE THE SUBCOMMITEE ON INTERNATIONAL OPERATIONS AND HUMAN RIGHTS
ry0ohki 15y ago
Visitors? Don't they only give out like 3000 visas a year?
- MoreMoschops 15y ago
  They turn down very few visas. They give out so few because there are so few applications.
maxxxxx 15y ago
the right way would be to stop trade with china since they are the ones holding up that regime. Of course that won't happen.

elliottcarlson 15y ago

The problem is that visitors require a guide - someone who will hide the true nature of NK to them and ensuring they only see what they are allowed to see. Even though there has been a good amount of hidden camera footage exposed, or articles such as this one - there are plenty of people who may not really be aware of what is really going on there behind the scenes.

MichaelApproved 15y ago
That reminds me of Nazi Germany when they went so far as to create a fake concentration camp for the Red Cross to visit.
- dantheman 15y ago
  If you're interested in Theresienstadt (the concentration camp) there's a great documentary called Prisoner of Paradise. It tells the story a Jewish filmmaker forced to make a propaganda film about the camp. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner_of_Paradise http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner_of_Paradise
abrown28 15y ago
A lot of the approved video is disturbing to me.
lotusleaf1987 15y ago
Vice Guide has a great documentary available streaming on Netflix. It was so depressing/surreal/horrifying all at once.
- unreal37 15y ago
  Vice Guide was very interesting. He was visiting large tourist sites, and was the only person there. Visited a gift shop, where he was the only person the attendant probably saw that day.

aw3c2 15y ago

And so is our lifestyle. We rely on the exploitation of the rest of the world but close our eyes and pretend everything is fine. After all, the bad things happen in far-far-away to people of different races and cultures.

yequalsx 15y ago
I think it's fair to bring up exploitation of resources, and labor conditions in other countries so that rich countries can live at a higher standard of living. But there is a difference from visiting an exploited country to visiting a country whose regime exploits its own people. Would you agree with this?
carussell 15y ago
Assuming there's legitimate reasoning behind them, and not just "I don't like it", could someone explain to me why this comment got so many downvotes?

pstack 15y ago

It's our way. We do business with China and visit them regularly, even though we know that much of what makes their manufacturing industry so competitive is the use of slave prison labor. It's weird how we decide what people deserve "liberation" and what people we just shrug our shoulders at and keep supporting, in one form or another, the government that is oppressing them.

cynicalkane 15y ago
We do business with China and visit them regularly, even though we know that much of what makes their manufacturing industry so competitive is the use of slave prison labor Though the conditions of labor in China seem shocking to comfortable Americans, they are not, in general, "slave prison labor".
- unreal37 15y ago
  How about this. I visited China last year, and saw/heard about the following. Say you want to build a new building. The workers are brought to the construction site, and they live on the site 24/7, taking shifts to sleep in a small cot. When they are not sleeping they are working (7 days a week). They do not see their families for months during the job. They work on site for several months, and will only receive pay after the building is done. If you have to leave the site for some reason (say a sick or dying relative, or you get sick yourself) before the building is done, you forfeit all your pay. You could have worked 6 months on a job, and if you hurt yourself, you go home without even $1. It's a deplorable condition being forced to live where you work. It's a prison, even if voluntary.
100tonmantis 15y ago
Source for "slave prison labor" in China please.
- pstack 15y ago
  http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/mpapps/pagetools/print/news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4515197.stm http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/mpapps/pagetools/print/news.bbc.co... "Using their vast pools of free labour, China's prisons produce everything from green tea to coal, paperclips to footballs, medical gloves to high-grade optical equipment." http://www.goiam.org/index.php/news/iam-news/2007-iam-news-archives/4610-senate-hearing-examines-sweatshop-conditions-in-china http://www.goiam.org/index.php/news/iam-news/2007-iam-news-a... "Prison Labor is also being exploited in China, according to executive director of the Laogai Research Foundation Harry Wu, who said prison laborers make garments, electronic components, coffee mugs and toys that end up in U.S. stores. “The Chinese government continues to use forced labor to make goods, condones sweatshop conditions in its factories, and refuses to allow workers to create independent unions-- is it really any wonder that low-quality, harmful toys are being exported to the US and into the hands of our children?” said Wu, who spent 19 years in a Chinese prison. Wal-Mart was singled out for their role in allowing the exploitation of cheap Chinese labor. “Wal-Mart bears a lion’s share of responsibility for pushing the toy industry into a region where product safety and worker safety inspection is virtually nonexistent,” said Bama Athreya, executive director of the International Labor Rights Forum." http://commdocs.house.gov/committees/intlrel/hfa45502.000/hfa45502_0.HTM http://commdocs.house.gov/committees/intlrel/hfa45502.000/hf... 1998 FORCED LABOR IN CHINA - HEARING BEFORE THE SUBCOMMITEE ON INTERNATIONAL OPERATIONS AND HUMAN RIGHTS

ry0ohki 15y ago

Visitors? Don't they only give out like 3000 visas a year?

MoreMoschops 15y ago
They turn down very few visas. They give out so few because there are so few applications.

maxxxxx 15y ago

the right way would be to stop trade with china since they are the ones holding up that regime. Of course that won't happen.