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This is the whole issue. A free market can not possibly correct what it cant see. In this case, consumers are not able to tell how repairable or well built a pr

This is the whole issue. A free market can not possibly correct what it cant see. In this case, consumers are not able to tell how repairable or well built a product is. Of all the things I have had fail, very rarely do they fail in a way I would have expected. Recently I had a fridge die because the light bulb fried which caused a short somehow on the main board frying the entire board. I could not have possibly predicted this was a problem so I could not have used the info to select a better made product. This fridge was from one of the big name reputable brands. All of the big and reputable brands are doing the same thing so its almost impossible to find the well built stuff unless you are looking at something trivial like a shoe or non power tool where a basic observation will tell you its build quality.

avmich 6y ago
We rely on basic observations - that worked a century ago, now not so much. We need some better mechanism - especially for people who doesn't know properties, failure modes etc.
- SulfurHexaFluri 6y ago
  I think what we really need is strong, mandatory warranties for everything. It should just be law that an appliance like a fridge or TV are expected to last 10 years (and adjust this value for all expected product lifetimes) And if samsung pushes out a software update that breaks the original experience (adding adverts for example) you are entitled for at least a partial refund. So if you owned it for 9 years and on the 9th they added adverts, you get a 1/10th refund. That way it becomes unprofitable to pump out IoT junk and then discontinue support a year later.
  - avmich 6y ago
    > I think what we really need is strong, mandatory warranties for everything. Maybe, but laws so far are slow and being circumvented in some areas of significant commercial interest. Maybe some technological approach could be better. A crude example - we already have more and more available spectrometers, which can analyze surface composition of many things, from which some properties can be estimated; of course, it's a long way to "quality meter".
  - avmich 6y ago
    > And if samsung pushes out a software update With software we can have some differential analysis systems. Maybe we can have a working system where the software is analyzable - say, is stored on an easily analyzable module. Then we can try to check changes...
dragonwriter 6y ago
> All of the big and reputable brands are doing the same thing so its almost impossible to find the well built stuff unless you are looking at something trivial like a shoe or non power tool where a basic observation will tell you its build quality. Or unless you consult independent consumer research material that does more work than basic observation to quantify quality differences. (The entire value proposition of, for instance, Consumer Reports, which indicates that this isn't a new problem, given how long they've been around with the sole selling point being solving it.)
rixed 6y ago
> its almost impossible to find the well built stuff unless you are looking at something trivial like a shoe Granted, there are no software in shoes. Yet, I'd like to know how you manage to assess the build quality of one without being a professional.
- HeyLaughingBoy 6y ago
  > Granted, there are no software in shoes Oh, you'd be surprised: https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/03/14/nikes-self-lacing-shoes-stopped-lacing-blame-internet/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/03/14/nikes-s...

avmich 6y ago

We rely on basic observations - that worked a century ago, now not so much. We need some better mechanism - especially for people who doesn't know properties, failure modes etc.

SulfurHexaFluri 6y ago
I think what we really need is strong, mandatory warranties for everything. It should just be law that an appliance like a fridge or TV are expected to last 10 years (and adjust this value for all expected product lifetimes) And if samsung pushes out a software update that breaks the original experience (adding adverts for example) you are entitled for at least a partial refund. So if you owned it for 9 years and on the 9th they added adverts, you get a 1/10th refund. That way it becomes unprofitable to pump out IoT junk and then discontinue support a year later.
- avmich 6y ago
  > I think what we really need is strong, mandatory warranties for everything. Maybe, but laws so far are slow and being circumvented in some areas of significant commercial interest. Maybe some technological approach could be better. A crude example - we already have more and more available spectrometers, which can analyze surface composition of many things, from which some properties can be estimated; of course, it's a long way to "quality meter".
- avmich 6y ago
  > And if samsung pushes out a software update With software we can have some differential analysis systems. Maybe we can have a working system where the software is analyzable - say, is stored on an easily analyzable module. Then we can try to check changes...

dragonwriter 6y ago

> All of the big and reputable brands are doing the same thing so its almost impossible to find the well built stuff unless you are looking at something trivial like a shoe or non power tool where a basic observation will tell you its build quality. Or unless you consult independent consumer research material that does more work than basic observation to quantify quality differences. (The entire value proposition of, for instance, Consumer Reports, which indicates that this isn't a new problem, given how long they've been around with the sole selling point being solving it.)

rixed 6y ago

> its almost impossible to find the well built stuff unless you are looking at something trivial like a shoe Granted, there are no software in shoes. Yet, I'd like to know how you manage to assess the build quality of one without being a professional.

HeyLaughingBoy 6y ago
> Granted, there are no software in shoes Oh, you'd be surprised: https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/03/14/nikes-self-lacing-shoes-stopped-lacing-blame-internet/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/03/14/nikes-s...