5 ms·

Yes, but you can plug your Tesla into non-Tesla chargers if you buy an adapter. Doesn't work the other way around (and for many of those 3rd party networks they

Yes, but you can plug your Tesla into non-Tesla chargers if you buy an adapter. Doesn't work the other way around (and for many of those 3rd party networks they have the Tesla connector anyway AFAIK).

vel0city 6y ago
True, Teslas these days come with a J1772 to Tesla AC adapter. IIRC they're not compatible with CCS but CCS chargers are more rare than J1772 at the moment. However I often see only J1772 plugs or only Tesla plugs around me. It's rare for places to have both options. Tesla was forced to make CCS compatible versions in Germany IIRC, so they could adopt the industry standard globally but instead choose to continue pushing vendor lock-in instead of open standards. Either way that doesn't change the fact Tesla might be the single biggest network of chargers out there, but they're not the most common chargers out there. The majority of chargers out there will not work on a Tesla without an adapter. If having the largest network of charging systems was really a long term play of theirs, you'd think they'd move to actually supporting the plugs which will probably be on ultimately the majority of cars on the road and take money from everyone instead of only customers of their cars. I question the long term importance of their charging network as more and more J1772/CCS cars get on the market and more J1772/CCS continue coming online. Imagine of Ford and Exxon had some exclusive pump and port agreement where Exxon stations could only sell gas to Ford cars but Ford gave adapters to allow Ford owners to fill anywhere, albeit with a bit more work. Sounds pretty dumb, right?
- fastball 6y ago
  You seem to be attributing to an attempt at vendor lock-in what can be more easily attributed to the fact that these other "standards" were not common at all when Tesla started building their supercharger network, and once you have inertia it can be hard to stop. It's like people complaining that Apple doesn't use USB-C in their phones, forgetting that when Apple made the switch to Lightning, USB-C didn't exist.
  - vel0city 6y ago
    CCS started production in 2013, it was a written standard a little before that. They've had roughly 7 years to work on adopting the standard plug and are only just starting to make upgrade kits to use CCS plugs with pass through adapters. They're still not able to use all of the power of the CCS connectors though. In the US they still don't have a single charger with a CCS connector on it. I realize USB-C didn't exist when they made Lightning. It still doesn't make sense why they have not migrated to USB-C either, other than continued vendor lock-in/control over the accessory market. With practically all MacBooks and many iPads being on USB-C, it makes less and less sense to have Lightning and USB-C at the same time. There's a standard out there they've halfway adopted, but they choose to not commit to it. All of their portable devices could charge off USB-C, and sell small USB-C to Lightning tips for the brief transition. I agree, Tesla is in somewhat the same situation. They could start producing CCS compatible cars in the US, they could retrofit ends on their chargers with J1772/CCS plugs, but instead they continue to build proprietary stations and proprietary cars. You're right both companies are in the same boat and do a similar thing in relation to connector standards. This doesn't make these actions good though.
    - labcomputer 6y ago
      CCS didn’t even exist, except on paper, until after Tesla deployed enough public Superchargers to drive between Tahoe, the Bay Area and LA. Seriously: the first public CCS charger outside a lab was almost a year later and only half the power. It wasn’t until VW started thinking about the Taycan and eTron that anyone actually deployed CCS chargers with more than about 50 kW in California (while Tesla customers were enjoying 120-150 kW). And most of the of public DCFC before about 2017-2018 in the US were actually Chademo, not CCS (which is why there is a Chademo adapter for Teslas). Up until a few years ago, people were saying that Tesla should adopt Chademo because it was a common standard and offered more power than CCS (at the time) and there were more public chargers. Today, there are still more cars on the road in North America that can use Chademo than CCS. CCS is not commonly used in either China or Japan.

vel0city 6y ago

True, Teslas these days come with a J1772 to Tesla AC adapter. IIRC they're not compatible with CCS but CCS chargers are more rare than J1772 at the moment. However I often see only J1772 plugs or only Tesla plugs around me. It's rare for places to have both options. Tesla was forced to make CCS compatible versions in Germany IIRC, so they could adopt the industry standard globally but instead choose to continue pushing vendor lock-in instead of open standards. Either way that doesn't change the fact Tesla might be the single biggest network of chargers out there, but they're not the most common chargers out there. The majority of chargers out there will not work on a Tesla without an adapter. If having the largest network of charging systems was really a long term play of theirs, you'd think they'd move to actually supporting the plugs which will probably be on ultimately the majority of cars on the road and take money from everyone instead of only customers of their cars. I question the long term importance of their charging network as more and more J1772/CCS cars get on the market and more J1772/CCS continue coming online. Imagine of Ford and Exxon had some exclusive pump and port agreement where Exxon stations could only sell gas to Ford cars but Ford gave adapters to allow Ford owners to fill anywhere, albeit with a bit more work. Sounds pretty dumb, right?

fastball 6y ago
You seem to be attributing to an attempt at vendor lock-in what can be more easily attributed to the fact that these other "standards" were not common at all when Tesla started building their supercharger network, and once you have inertia it can be hard to stop. It's like people complaining that Apple doesn't use USB-C in their phones, forgetting that when Apple made the switch to Lightning, USB-C didn't exist.
- vel0city 6y ago
  CCS started production in 2013, it was a written standard a little before that. They've had roughly 7 years to work on adopting the standard plug and are only just starting to make upgrade kits to use CCS plugs with pass through adapters. They're still not able to use all of the power of the CCS connectors though. In the US they still don't have a single charger with a CCS connector on it. I realize USB-C didn't exist when they made Lightning. It still doesn't make sense why they have not migrated to USB-C either, other than continued vendor lock-in/control over the accessory market. With practically all MacBooks and many iPads being on USB-C, it makes less and less sense to have Lightning and USB-C at the same time. There's a standard out there they've halfway adopted, but they choose to not commit to it. All of their portable devices could charge off USB-C, and sell small USB-C to Lightning tips for the brief transition. I agree, Tesla is in somewhat the same situation. They could start producing CCS compatible cars in the US, they could retrofit ends on their chargers with J1772/CCS plugs, but instead they continue to build proprietary stations and proprietary cars. You're right both companies are in the same boat and do a similar thing in relation to connector standards. This doesn't make these actions good though.
  - labcomputer 6y ago
    CCS didn’t even exist, except on paper, until after Tesla deployed enough public Superchargers to drive between Tahoe, the Bay Area and LA. Seriously: the first public CCS charger outside a lab was almost a year later and only half the power. It wasn’t until VW started thinking about the Taycan and eTron that anyone actually deployed CCS chargers with more than about 50 kW in California (while Tesla customers were enjoying 120-150 kW). And most of the of public DCFC before about 2017-2018 in the US were actually Chademo, not CCS (which is why there is a Chademo adapter for Teslas). Up until a few years ago, people were saying that Tesla should adopt Chademo because it was a common standard and offered more power than CCS (at the time) and there were more public chargers. Today, there are still more cars on the road in North America that can use Chademo than CCS. CCS is not commonly used in either China or Japan.