7 ms·

The author is conflating the "fun of driving" with the necessity of driving 20km every morning and evening to get to work. Many people who don't really enjoy c

by mrpopo 6y ago

The author is conflating the "fun of driving" with the necessity of driving 20km every morning and evening to get to work. Many people who don't really enjoy cars are now caught in a car-centered society where they have no choice but to drive to go anywhere. Even those who enjoy driving should not be allowed to have too much fun and take risks on public roads. If you want to have fun driving, get your car of choice and go to a car circuit. Do not endanger others driving recklessly on scenic roads. It's just irresponsible.

kiliantics 6y ago
Here here. Even if you can manage to live such that you are not forced to drive in order to get where you need to go, you are still forced to share almost all of the space on your way with cars. And the reckless/inconsiderate drivers pose more than just an inconvenience, it's a real life-or-death threat that one is forced to live with.
sandworm101 6y ago
The vast majority of accidents are not linked to joyriding. It is alcohol, and to a lesser extent other drugs. Lethal accidents are the norm at 3am, not rush hour. And we have to be careful about causation statistics. A drunk will be speeding, but the accident is the result of the drunkenness rather than speed as there was no rational choice to speed. Nor was it reckless driving. Stop letting people get behind the wheel after drinking. Solve that problem. All the other sources of accidents are secondary at the moment. And use seatbelts. I am constantly shocked by how many americans still refuse to do so. Seatbelt use in back seats was still not manditory when i lived in new england. "Depending on which state a driver is in, not wearing a seat belt in the front seat is either a primary offense or a secondary offense, with the exception of New Hampshire, which does not have a law requiring people over age 18 to wear a seat belt. In the front seat, the driver and each passenger must wear a seat belt, one person per belt. In some states, such as New York, New Hampshire, and Michigan, belts in the rear seats are not mandatory for people over the age of 16." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seat_belt_legislation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seat_belt_legislation
- tertius 6y ago
  I can't stop everyone else from driving drunk but I sure can exhibit self control and not speed or drive dangerously as to endanger others just because I want to have some fun. Just because you're not a drunk doesn't mean your actions are justifiable. * I really like driving.
  - sandworm101 6y ago
    Does "for fun" include trips taken for leasure activities? If i am driving to the waterpark, and cause an accident, was i not driving for fun, for no other purpose than my own pleasure? If we crack dowm on driving "for fun" we should really look into all forms of unnecesary driving. Or shall we admit that many trips are unnecessary and adress the accidents rather than the motivation for why the person took to the road in the first place?
    - paulryanrogers 6y ago
      My interpretation of "driving for fun" is doing entertaining maneuvers, usually putting myself or others at risk when on public roads. Not driving to get somewhere fun.
    - neolog 6y ago
      Nice one.
    - tertius 6y ago
      You can go anywhere safely. You can also go anywhere recklessly, or what reckless people call "having some fun". Does that clear up your misunderstanding?
- adrianN 6y ago
  I think you need to distinguish accidents in cities, which are very frequent, but lethal "only" to cyclists and pedestrians, and accidents that kill drivers. The latter happen at high speeds and drugs are often involved, but the former happens all the time simply because people are in a hurry or inattentive.
oblib 6y ago
This article was about advertising and selling the "fun of driving" in a era that was much different than today. Your complaints have nothing to do with what the author offered: "Many people who don't really enjoy cars are now..." "Even those who enjoy driving should not be allowed to have too much fun and take risks on public roads" You've conflated the author's story into something entirely different in order to complain about something that has nothing at all to to with what the author was sharing. You know, if you look for something to complain about everywhere you look you will always find something to complain about. That is one of the easiest things ever to do. I think you should re-read that article with the intent to learn and feel and experience what they're sharing because it's not about you, and you completely missed what it is about.
- mrpopo 6y ago
  I entirely understand that the article was exposing a different era, thank you. Even in this era, I would argue that selling the "fun of driving" was irresponsible, because it brought us the car infrastructure that we live in today. Who else should I complain to?
  - tjr225 6y ago
    I _love_ cars. I also _love_ bicycles. I'm not saying I'm normal but perhaps I can provide some perspective. Even before I went fully remote 2 years ago I took a combination of bicycle and train to work here in Seattle where public transportation is okay at best. Before that I biked 10 miles one way to an office in Missouri after selling my car. I don't depend on cars for my lifestyle so if I do have a car I want it to be one I enjoy taking to the store or driving to the mountains or whatever. They are cool machines and driving can be fun.
  - oblib 6y ago
    I don't think it's fair to equate the "fun of driving" with reckless driving. The difference between driving a little sports car with the top down and a 4door sedan or big SUV on a curvey mountain road is not all about how fast you can go. They're just a lot more fun. One of my favorite cars was a little Suzuki Samurai. It wasn't at all fast but it was a blast to drive with the top down and go 4wheeling on the National Forest roads. Consider "lowriders". Those aren't famous for being fast, they're famous for going slow, but they're a lot of fun to cruise the strip in. I think people fumbling with their phone while driving is a bigger issue right now than people speeding and racing.
twblalock 6y ago
> Many people who don't really enjoy cars are now caught in a car-centered society where they have no choice but to drive to go anywhere. I used to think that way. But the past year has shown me that private car ownership has massive upsides. Public transit is wonderful in many ways, and I have used it as much as possible for a long time, but during the pandemic it has been very nice to have my own car. I would never be willing to go without one. Apparently a lot of other people feel the same way, because used car prices have been unusually high this past year. At the moment I would rather have a car commute than a bus or train commute, and that won't change until the pandemic is over. Don't tell me to ride a bike to work -- this isn't the 1800s. We are accustomed to living miles away from work, and modern public transit was built with that assumption -- if we all lived within a mile of work we would just walk. Cities are not spread out merely because of cars. Cities are spread out because people want space, and all modern transit infrastructure, including streetcars 100 years ago, was built to accommodate the fact that people were already living miles away from work.
- hannasanarion 6y ago
  Clearly written by someone who hasn't ridden a bike since childhood. Effective bike range isn't one mile, it's 2-10 miles. One mile isn't worth getting on the bike for. Since the majority of car trips taken by Americans are less than 7 miles[1] and have only one passenger, a bicycle is the optimal vehicle for the trip, especially since the advent of ebikes means that physical strain is no longer a consideration. As for how people have responded to the pandemic, more have turned to bikes than cars. Car prices are always being hiked, that's the whole reason manufacturers are pushing SUVs: same chassis, same engine, higher price, free profit. Bikes, on the other hand, are in such high demand that new ones are hard to find at all. I ordered a new bike in July, it is not expected to arrive until January because the waiting list is that long. 1. http://imgur.com/lCQTN9z http://imgur.com/lCQTN9z
  - twblalock 6y ago
    > Clearly written by someone who hasn't ridden a bike since childhood. Try again. I know when the last time I rode a bike was. You don't. Hint: it was quite recent. Condescension reeks throughout your entire post. You are wrong about who I am, you are wrong about my bicycling habits, and you are also wrong about how realistic it is for me to ride my bike to work. Yet you think you are in a position to dictate to me what I ought to be doing. This is typical of bicycle-commuting advocates and it is the reason you are a fringe minority. > As for how people have responded to the pandemic, more have turned to bikes than cars. Car prices are always being hiked, that's the whole reason manufacturers are pushing SUVs: same chassis, same engine, higher price, free profit. Explain how this applies to used cars which is what I mentioned in my post. Of course you won't, because you have already put on your ideological blinkers and ranted about manufacturers pushing new SUVs, which I never mentioned. Instead, please explain why used cars are up in price compared to a year ago.
pkorzeniewski 6y ago
When I was daily driving an old Mercedes SLK roadster, every trip - no matter how long or short, in traffic or not - was fun. I owned that car for 6 years and for the whole time of ownership it always made me smile just thinking about going somewhere (well, expect for times when it was broken but it wasn't often). Unfortunately I had to sell it because it started to fall apart and I bought a brand new car that's practical, safe, reliable, but simply boring and now driving became a chore. I'm planning to buy a fun car once again as a second one and use it whenever I can because I miss the joy of driving sooooo much.
pjc50 6y ago
The author was born in 1935 and is writing about the car culture of the 1950s and 1960s. That was killed off by the oil crisis. This should be treated as a dispatch from the surprisingly distant past, not a commentary on the present day. What we might consider is that the freedom was both genuine and unsustainable, and showed a general problem for humans: there's such a thing as too many other people exercising too much freedom getting in the way of you exercising your own freedom. Something to contemplate as you sit in traffic. (There's a whole interesting discussion we could also have based on the sentences "Advertising didn’t have to be a near-criminal conspiracy. It could be tasteful, honest, and useful.")

by mrpopo 6y ago

kiliantics 6y ago

Here here. Even if you can manage to live such that you are not forced to drive in order to get where you need to go, you are still forced to share almost all of the space on your way with cars. And the reckless/inconsiderate drivers pose more than just an inconvenience, it's a real life-or-death threat that one is forced to live with.

sandworm101 6y ago

The vast majority of accidents are not linked to joyriding. It is alcohol, and to a lesser extent other drugs. Lethal accidents are the norm at 3am, not rush hour. And we have to be careful about causation statistics. A drunk will be speeding, but the accident is the result of the drunkenness rather than speed as there was no rational choice to speed. Nor was it reckless driving. Stop letting people get behind the wheel after drinking. Solve that problem. All the other sources of accidents are secondary at the moment. And use seatbelts. I am constantly shocked by how many americans still refuse to do so. Seatbelt use in back seats was still not manditory when i lived in new england. "Depending on which state a driver is in, not wearing a seat belt in the front seat is either a primary offense or a secondary offense, with the exception of New Hampshire, which does not have a law requiring people over age 18 to wear a seat belt. In the front seat, the driver and each passenger must wear a seat belt, one person per belt. In some states, such as New York, New Hampshire, and Michigan, belts in the rear seats are not mandatory for people over the age of 16." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seat_belt_legislation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seat_belt_legislation

tertius 6y ago
I can't stop everyone else from driving drunk but I sure can exhibit self control and not speed or drive dangerously as to endanger others just because I want to have some fun. Just because you're not a drunk doesn't mean your actions are justifiable. * I really like driving.
- sandworm101 6y ago
  Does "for fun" include trips taken for leasure activities? If i am driving to the waterpark, and cause an accident, was i not driving for fun, for no other purpose than my own pleasure? If we crack dowm on driving "for fun" we should really look into all forms of unnecesary driving. Or shall we admit that many trips are unnecessary and adress the accidents rather than the motivation for why the person took to the road in the first place?
  - paulryanrogers 6y ago
    My interpretation of "driving for fun" is doing entertaining maneuvers, usually putting myself or others at risk when on public roads. Not driving to get somewhere fun.
  - neolog 6y ago
    Nice one.
  - tertius 6y ago
    You can go anywhere safely. You can also go anywhere recklessly, or what reckless people call "having some fun". Does that clear up your misunderstanding?
adrianN 6y ago
I think you need to distinguish accidents in cities, which are very frequent, but lethal "only" to cyclists and pedestrians, and accidents that kill drivers. The latter happen at high speeds and drugs are often involved, but the former happens all the time simply because people are in a hurry or inattentive.

oblib 6y ago

This article was about advertising and selling the "fun of driving" in a era that was much different than today. Your complaints have nothing to do with what the author offered: "Many people who don't really enjoy cars are now..." "Even those who enjoy driving should not be allowed to have too much fun and take risks on public roads" You've conflated the author's story into something entirely different in order to complain about something that has nothing at all to to with what the author was sharing. You know, if you look for something to complain about everywhere you look you will always find something to complain about. That is one of the easiest things ever to do. I think you should re-read that article with the intent to learn and feel and experience what they're sharing because it's not about you, and you completely missed what it is about.

mrpopo 6y ago
I entirely understand that the article was exposing a different era, thank you. Even in this era, I would argue that selling the "fun of driving" was irresponsible, because it brought us the car infrastructure that we live in today. Who else should I complain to?
- tjr225 6y ago
  I _love_ cars. I also _love_ bicycles. I'm not saying I'm normal but perhaps I can provide some perspective. Even before I went fully remote 2 years ago I took a combination of bicycle and train to work here in Seattle where public transportation is okay at best. Before that I biked 10 miles one way to an office in Missouri after selling my car. I don't depend on cars for my lifestyle so if I do have a car I want it to be one I enjoy taking to the store or driving to the mountains or whatever. They are cool machines and driving can be fun.
- oblib 6y ago
  I don't think it's fair to equate the "fun of driving" with reckless driving. The difference between driving a little sports car with the top down and a 4door sedan or big SUV on a curvey mountain road is not all about how fast you can go. They're just a lot more fun. One of my favorite cars was a little Suzuki Samurai. It wasn't at all fast but it was a blast to drive with the top down and go 4wheeling on the National Forest roads. Consider "lowriders". Those aren't famous for being fast, they're famous for going slow, but they're a lot of fun to cruise the strip in. I think people fumbling with their phone while driving is a bigger issue right now than people speeding and racing.

twblalock 6y ago

> Many people who don't really enjoy cars are now caught in a car-centered society where they have no choice but to drive to go anywhere. I used to think that way. But the past year has shown me that private car ownership has massive upsides. Public transit is wonderful in many ways, and I have used it as much as possible for a long time, but during the pandemic it has been very nice to have my own car. I would never be willing to go without one. Apparently a lot of other people feel the same way, because used car prices have been unusually high this past year. At the moment I would rather have a car commute than a bus or train commute, and that won't change until the pandemic is over. Don't tell me to ride a bike to work -- this isn't the 1800s. We are accustomed to living miles away from work, and modern public transit was built with that assumption -- if we all lived within a mile of work we would just walk. Cities are not spread out merely because of cars. Cities are spread out because people want space, and all modern transit infrastructure, including streetcars 100 years ago, was built to accommodate the fact that people were already living miles away from work.

hannasanarion 6y ago
Clearly written by someone who hasn't ridden a bike since childhood. Effective bike range isn't one mile, it's 2-10 miles. One mile isn't worth getting on the bike for. Since the majority of car trips taken by Americans are less than 7 miles[1] and have only one passenger, a bicycle is the optimal vehicle for the trip, especially since the advent of ebikes means that physical strain is no longer a consideration. As for how people have responded to the pandemic, more have turned to bikes than cars. Car prices are always being hiked, that's the whole reason manufacturers are pushing SUVs: same chassis, same engine, higher price, free profit. Bikes, on the other hand, are in such high demand that new ones are hard to find at all. I ordered a new bike in July, it is not expected to arrive until January because the waiting list is that long. 1. http://imgur.com/lCQTN9z http://imgur.com/lCQTN9z
- twblalock 6y ago
  > Clearly written by someone who hasn't ridden a bike since childhood. Try again. I know when the last time I rode a bike was. You don't. Hint: it was quite recent. Condescension reeks throughout your entire post. You are wrong about who I am, you are wrong about my bicycling habits, and you are also wrong about how realistic it is for me to ride my bike to work. Yet you think you are in a position to dictate to me what I ought to be doing. This is typical of bicycle-commuting advocates and it is the reason you are a fringe minority. > As for how people have responded to the pandemic, more have turned to bikes than cars. Car prices are always being hiked, that's the whole reason manufacturers are pushing SUVs: same chassis, same engine, higher price, free profit. Explain how this applies to used cars which is what I mentioned in my post. Of course you won't, because you have already put on your ideological blinkers and ranted about manufacturers pushing new SUVs, which I never mentioned. Instead, please explain why used cars are up in price compared to a year ago.

pkorzeniewski 6y ago

When I was daily driving an old Mercedes SLK roadster, every trip - no matter how long or short, in traffic or not - was fun. I owned that car for 6 years and for the whole time of ownership it always made me smile just thinking about going somewhere (well, expect for times when it was broken but it wasn't often). Unfortunately I had to sell it because it started to fall apart and I bought a brand new car that's practical, safe, reliable, but simply boring and now driving became a chore. I'm planning to buy a fun car once again as a second one and use it whenever I can because I miss the joy of driving sooooo much.

pjc50 6y ago

The author was born in 1935 and is writing about the car culture of the 1950s and 1960s. That was killed off by the oil crisis. This should be treated as a dispatch from the surprisingly distant past, not a commentary on the present day. What we might consider is that the freedom was both genuine and unsustainable, and showed a general problem for humans: there's such a thing as too many other people exercising too much freedom getting in the way of you exercising your own freedom. Something to contemplate as you sit in traffic. (There's a whole interesting discussion we could also have based on the sentences "Advertising didn’t have to be a near-criminal conspiracy. It could be tasteful, honest, and useful.")