3 ms·

This is a truly terrible perspective. Many pedestrians are slow and extremely vulerable to the effects of being toppled by a wheeled vehicle. This is particular

by howlin 6y ago

This is a truly terrible perspective. Many pedestrians are slow and extremely vulerable to the effects of being toppled by a wheeled vehicle. This is particularly a problem when people are leaving buildings onto sidewalks unaware of cross traffic moving at 10+ kph. Bicycles belong on the road with other vehicles.

Der_Einzige 6y ago
Show me evidence that cyclists on sidewalks are responsible for even 5% of the fatalities that happen from cyclists being on the roads. I think you're the one with the terrible perspective.
tomc1985 6y ago
Honestly bicycles belong in their own dedicated spaces. As a driver I don't want them on the road and as a pedestrian I don't want them on the sidewalks. Bike lanes are a start but we need dedicated bike infrastructure.
- matsemann 6y ago
  You say that as if road are for cars and are only "allowing" the bikes to be there by their good grace. It should be flipped around.
  - tomc1985 6y ago
    Everything about road design is for cars. I've lived in a place with dedicated bike infrastructure. It was amazing. We should be pushing for that. And why are cyclists so antagonistic? Not a good look if one wants their group to be taken seriously.
    - matsemann 6y ago
      As if the drivers are cool and level headed while mowing cyclists down? People fearing for their lives are allowed to be agitated. And if you don't want to take a diverse group of people seriously because of some slight you have with a minority of them, you're not really interested in taking them seriously in the first place, and are just looking for excuses. Classic tactic used to neglect lots of groups one's not in. "If the millions of BLM supporters want to be taken seriously, they shouldn't have a few people among them rioting!" is another example.
      - tomc1985 6y ago
        See this is what I mean by antagonism. Before roads were for cars they were for horse+buggies, or chariots, or other transport. Cyclists are not first-class citizens on roads and they never will be. And frankly I don't want to get stuck behind one on a road with a dramatically higher speed limit than what you can pedal at. That shit is just rude. The amount of entitlement that seems to come from the cycling community makes it really hard for others to empathize with your situation. You can make a bad faith argument comparing yourselves to BLMers if you want, but I can see right through it. Appreciate your sitaution as a minority among minorities and plan your moves appropriately. But thinking that cyclists should get higher priority over multi-ton cars and such you are mistaken. > People fearing for their lives are allowed to be agitated. Don't forget that by cycling you are choosing to bring a knife to a gunfight.
        matsemann 6y ago
        > And frankly I don't want to get stuck behind one on a road with a dramatically higher speed limit than what you can pedal at. In big cities that's never a problem. Cars are stuck behind other cars. > You can make a bad faith argument comparing I didn't compare myself to that, only an example. If anything that's a straw man and bad faith on you.. > Don't forget that by cycling you are choosing to bring a knife to a gunfight. It's not a fight. But you and other drivers looking at it like that is very telling, heh.
wolrah 6y ago
> This is particularly a problem when people are leaving buildings onto sidewalks unaware of cross traffic moving at 10+ kph. Bicycles belong on the road with other vehicles. I can never understand how anyone can make this argument without seeing how it applies even harder to why bicycles shouldn't be on the road with cars going 45+ MPH (~70+ km/h). Bicycles are closer to pedestrians than cars outside of the slowest city roads.
zebnyc 6y ago
Agreed. When I got my bike for the first few weeks I would ride on the sidewalk. Until my wife pointed out that in our residential neighborhood, anybody could back out of their driveway and hit me and it would be my fault as I would be in their blind spot. Since then I bike on the road.

by howlin 6y ago

Der_Einzige 6y ago

Show me evidence that cyclists on sidewalks are responsible for even 5% of the fatalities that happen from cyclists being on the roads. I think you're the one with the terrible perspective.

tomc1985 6y ago

Honestly bicycles belong in their own dedicated spaces. As a driver I don't want them on the road and as a pedestrian I don't want them on the sidewalks. Bike lanes are a start but we need dedicated bike infrastructure.

matsemann 6y ago
You say that as if road are for cars and are only "allowing" the bikes to be there by their good grace. It should be flipped around.
- tomc1985 6y ago
  Everything about road design is for cars. I've lived in a place with dedicated bike infrastructure. It was amazing. We should be pushing for that. And why are cyclists so antagonistic? Not a good look if one wants their group to be taken seriously.
  - matsemann 6y ago
    As if the drivers are cool and level headed while mowing cyclists down? People fearing for their lives are allowed to be agitated. And if you don't want to take a diverse group of people seriously because of some slight you have with a minority of them, you're not really interested in taking them seriously in the first place, and are just looking for excuses. Classic tactic used to neglect lots of groups one's not in. "If the millions of BLM supporters want to be taken seriously, they shouldn't have a few people among them rioting!" is another example.
    - tomc1985 6y ago
      See this is what I mean by antagonism. Before roads were for cars they were for horse+buggies, or chariots, or other transport. Cyclists are not first-class citizens on roads and they never will be. And frankly I don't want to get stuck behind one on a road with a dramatically higher speed limit than what you can pedal at. That shit is just rude. The amount of entitlement that seems to come from the cycling community makes it really hard for others to empathize with your situation. You can make a bad faith argument comparing yourselves to BLMers if you want, but I can see right through it. Appreciate your sitaution as a minority among minorities and plan your moves appropriately. But thinking that cyclists should get higher priority over multi-ton cars and such you are mistaken. > People fearing for their lives are allowed to be agitated. Don't forget that by cycling you are choosing to bring a knife to a gunfight.
      - matsemann 6y ago
        > And frankly I don't want to get stuck behind one on a road with a dramatically higher speed limit than what you can pedal at. In big cities that's never a problem. Cars are stuck behind other cars. > You can make a bad faith argument comparing I didn't compare myself to that, only an example. If anything that's a straw man and bad faith on you.. > Don't forget that by cycling you are choosing to bring a knife to a gunfight. It's not a fight. But you and other drivers looking at it like that is very telling, heh.

wolrah 6y ago

> This is particularly a problem when people are leaving buildings onto sidewalks unaware of cross traffic moving at 10+ kph. Bicycles belong on the road with other vehicles. I can never understand how anyone can make this argument without seeing how it applies even harder to why bicycles shouldn't be on the road with cars going 45+ MPH (~70+ km/h). Bicycles are closer to pedestrians than cars outside of the slowest city roads.

zebnyc 6y ago

Agreed. When I got my bike for the first few weeks I would ride on the sidewalk. Until my wife pointed out that in our residential neighborhood, anybody could back out of their driveway and hit me and it would be my fault as I would be in their blind spot. Since then I bike on the road.