4 ms·

Car drivers seem to violate traffic laws at least as often as bicyclists. And that's just speed limits.

prepend 6y ago
Certainly, I don’t think car drivers are perfect by any means. I’m not sure the exact ratio, but I see cars speeding every day as well. But it’s pretty rare to see a car run a red light or weave around other cars.
- dashundchen 6y ago
  I would love to live where you live. Around me in a US city, cars stop in crosswalks, run reds, ignore left and right turn rules and swing into turns like no one could ever possibly be crossing or cycling. And I live in what's supposedly the bike and ped friendly core. Just this weekend in my neighborhood, and elderly woman was murdered by a driver hooking a left turn while she was in a crosswalk. Same neighborhood, a homeowner had a driver crash into her home for the second time in three months! Driving culture in the US is undisciplined and low-skilled. The requirements for earning a license are far too low in every state.
  - cgriswald 6y ago
    Where I live, drivers, bicyclists, and pedestrians are all insane. When I’m driving I don’t trust any of them. When I’m walking, I don’t trust any of them. I don’t bike here because I don’t want to die. My fifteen minute, five mile commute is never completed without witnessing egregious violations. My city seems dedicated to making the roads as deadly as possible. Rather than having bicycles go down a parallel road, they gave them a bike lane on the main road. Thing is, there is no real benefit to bicyclists to be on that road versus a parallel road. I wouldn't bike on that road for pay. The city also added speed bumps. So idiot drivers drive into the bike lane to go around the bumps. The same city has changed left + straight lanes to be left only and right only lanes to be right + straight. This has the effect of "no turn on red" which should reduce danger to pedestrians... but the lanes don't always line up, sometimes there are near collisions because people think they are in the straight lane or because people turning an unprotected left in the opposing traffic think they are in a turn lane (and indicators are optional). I could rant on for pages. I don't know the solution. I now drive first for my own safety, second to limit my own liability, and third for the safety of others. I equate that with giving up. But on one side are idiots that think the road should be built just for them and on the other side are well-meaning idiots that remove the double yellow lines because drivers slow down. One thing I do know is that pedestrians, bicyclists, and drivers should be kept physically separate wherever possible.
  - tomcooks 6y ago
    Could the very low age of 16 be a reason? Not based in the US so I'm probably wrong
    - DangitBobby 6y ago
      My personal belief is that there must be a very low bar for driving because In many places in the US, if you don't have ready access to a car for transportation, your life will be very difficult. Poor public transportation combined with massive sprawl ensure this. Also, generally speaking, Americans do not like things that add perceived barriers to their personal freedom and independence, so any proposal to make it more difficult to get a license would probably be unpopular.
- sethherr 6y ago
  I think if you picked a random population of cars, and a random population of bikes, the cars would more regularly break the law - generally speeding (full disclosure, I generally go 10-15 over the speed limit when driving). Then consider injuries caused by breaking the law on the road. Bikes breaking the law cause few, speeding cars cause many. Dismissing the regular lawbreaking of cars doesn’t seem rational. Just because you don’t like the way bikes break the law doesn’t mean bikes breaking the law has a negative impact. Cursory search turns this up: > Speeding was a factor in 26% of all traffic fatalities in 2018, killing 9,378, or an average of over 25 people per day. Source: https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/motor-vehicle/motor-vehicle-safety-issues/speeding/ https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/motor-vehicle/motor-vehicle-safe...
- lmm 6y ago
  Sure. But both those things are equally illegal, and a car exceeding the speed limit is more likely to cause serious injury or death than a bicycle running a red light. So why treat the latter as somehow worse than the former?
- ryantgtg 6y ago
  Let’s say the ratio of violations per mode is the same. In the city I live in, bicyclists make up <1% of road users. So the drivers operating their vehicles dangerously out number bicyclists doing so 100:1. And vehicles are what are killing and severely injuring people, not bicyclists.
- zimpenfish 6y ago
  At peak time, I can stand at the crossing outside Old Kent Road ASDA for 5 minutes and see 3-5 cars actively jumping a red light with 5-10 others entering the junction without a clear exit (means other cars and pedestrians have to weave around them when the lights change.)

Certainly, I don’t think car drivers are perfect by any means. I’m not sure the exact ratio, but I see cars speeding every day as well. But it’s pretty rare to see a car run a red light or weave around other cars.

dashundchen 6y ago
I would love to live where you live. Around me in a US city, cars stop in crosswalks, run reds, ignore left and right turn rules and swing into turns like no one could ever possibly be crossing or cycling. And I live in what's supposedly the bike and ped friendly core. Just this weekend in my neighborhood, and elderly woman was murdered by a driver hooking a left turn while she was in a crosswalk. Same neighborhood, a homeowner had a driver crash into her home for the second time in three months! Driving culture in the US is undisciplined and low-skilled. The requirements for earning a license are far too low in every state.
- cgriswald 6y ago
  Where I live, drivers, bicyclists, and pedestrians are all insane. When I’m driving I don’t trust any of them. When I’m walking, I don’t trust any of them. I don’t bike here because I don’t want to die. My fifteen minute, five mile commute is never completed without witnessing egregious violations. My city seems dedicated to making the roads as deadly as possible. Rather than having bicycles go down a parallel road, they gave them a bike lane on the main road. Thing is, there is no real benefit to bicyclists to be on that road versus a parallel road. I wouldn't bike on that road for pay. The city also added speed bumps. So idiot drivers drive into the bike lane to go around the bumps. The same city has changed left + straight lanes to be left only and right only lanes to be right + straight. This has the effect of "no turn on red" which should reduce danger to pedestrians... but the lanes don't always line up, sometimes there are near collisions because people think they are in the straight lane or because people turning an unprotected left in the opposing traffic think they are in a turn lane (and indicators are optional). I could rant on for pages. I don't know the solution. I now drive first for my own safety, second to limit my own liability, and third for the safety of others. I equate that with giving up. But on one side are idiots that think the road should be built just for them and on the other side are well-meaning idiots that remove the double yellow lines because drivers slow down. One thing I do know is that pedestrians, bicyclists, and drivers should be kept physically separate wherever possible.
- tomcooks 6y ago
  Could the very low age of 16 be a reason? Not based in the US so I'm probably wrong
  - DangitBobby 6y ago
    My personal belief is that there must be a very low bar for driving because In many places in the US, if you don't have ready access to a car for transportation, your life will be very difficult. Poor public transportation combined with massive sprawl ensure this. Also, generally speaking, Americans do not like things that add perceived barriers to their personal freedom and independence, so any proposal to make it more difficult to get a license would probably be unpopular.
sethherr 6y ago
I think if you picked a random population of cars, and a random population of bikes, the cars would more regularly break the law - generally speeding (full disclosure, I generally go 10-15 over the speed limit when driving). Then consider injuries caused by breaking the law on the road. Bikes breaking the law cause few, speeding cars cause many. Dismissing the regular lawbreaking of cars doesn’t seem rational. Just because you don’t like the way bikes break the law doesn’t mean bikes breaking the law has a negative impact. Cursory search turns this up: > Speeding was a factor in 26% of all traffic fatalities in 2018, killing 9,378, or an average of over 25 people per day. Source: https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/motor-vehicle/motor-vehicle-safety-issues/speeding/ https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/motor-vehicle/motor-vehicle-safe...
lmm 6y ago
Sure. But both those things are equally illegal, and a car exceeding the speed limit is more likely to cause serious injury or death than a bicycle running a red light. So why treat the latter as somehow worse than the former?
ryantgtg 6y ago
Let’s say the ratio of violations per mode is the same. In the city I live in, bicyclists make up <1% of road users. So the drivers operating their vehicles dangerously out number bicyclists doing so 100:1. And vehicles are what are killing and severely injuring people, not bicyclists.
zimpenfish 6y ago
At peak time, I can stand at the crossing outside Old Kent Road ASDA for 5 minutes and see 3-5 cars actively jumping a red light with 5-10 others entering the junction without a clear exit (means other cars and pedestrians have to weave around them when the lights change.)