4 ms·

This is 100%, the fact the US can barely manufacturer face masks during a global pandemic is embarrassing. On the other end, how do you compete with slave labo

This is 100%, the fact the US can barely manufacturer face masks during a global pandemic is embarrassing. On the other end, how do you compete with slave labor in the Chinese factories?

daniellarusso 6y ago
US prison labor?
liquidify 6y ago
The consequences of that slave labor are far more on Chinese society than just the manufacturing dominance. There are a lot of things that are negative such as hatred of the CCP, that these policies are creating in China. The facade may look good, but there are cracks in China's foundation because of these decisions.
Thinkx220 6y ago
By lowering taxes and deregulating the economy.
vsskanth 6y ago
> how do you compete with slave labor in the Chinese factories? Trading blocs that ensure minimum working conditions. Companies which pay the worker a decent wage should get favorable tax treatment and procurement.
- justinzollars 6y ago
  Or technological improvements
  - u801e 6y ago
    Some industries in China follow the 996[1] working hour system. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/996_working_hour_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/996_working_hour_system
- sumedh 6y ago
  > Trading blocs that ensure minimum working conditions. So China will just ship the goods to another country and change the Made in label. Some middle man will make money and nothing will change.
hungryhobo 6y ago
You are never gonna compete with chinese manufacturing if you believe their secret to success is slave labour. There are plenty of countries with worse working conditions yet but people seem to stick with china.
kurthr 6y ago
It's not about slave labor, it's about manufacturing equipment. I suspect it was turned down, because helping the northeast survive a pandemic was not perceived as worth any political risk/capital. https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/in-the-early-days-of-the-pandemic-the-us-government-turned-down-an-offer-to-manufacture-millions-of-n95-masks-in-america/2020/05/09/f76a821e-908a-11ea-a9c0-73b93422d691_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/in-the-early-d...
- swswsw 6y ago
  Wait. According to that article, the last major mask manufacturer in US offered to increase production and was turned down by government. > "In the end, the government did not take Bowen up on his offer. Even today[May 9, 2020], production lines that could be making more than 7 million masks a month sit dormant." That article was published in May 9. Even on May 9, the production lines were dormant. How could this happen? It is unfathomable. The country probably had masks shortage since March. It is so hard to believe some of the things that happened this year.
romanoderoma 6y ago
On the other hand Apple (to name one) piled an enormous amount of money thanks to slave labor in China. Paying peanuts in taxes How Apple avoided paying $40 billion in taxes https://fortune.com/2018/01/18/apple-bonuses-money-us-350-billion-taxes-trump/ https://fortune.com/2018/01/18/apple-bonuses-money-us-350-bi... Maybe the State could tax products manufactured abroad at 50% no matter where they keep the money. Using the simple formula: units sold * profit margin per unit * 50%
renewiltord 6y ago
Shenzhen factory labour is more expensive than America. The labour is higher quality, though.
- aquaticsunset 6y ago
  Got a citation for this?
- zhdc1 6y ago
  Average salary in Shenzhen (2019) was 127K yuan, or about $18K usd. Average salary (manufacturing) in the US is about $30K usd. I'm sure that after you adjust for cost of living, the numbers more or less look equal. However, keep in mind that manufacturing is leaving Shenzhen because of rising wages. Sources: Shenzhen Annual Salaries: http://www.sz.gov.cn/en_szgov/news/latest/content/post_7889482.html http://www.sz.gov.cn/en_szgov/news/latest/content/post_78894... US Annual Salaries: https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes519199.htm https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes519199.htm Shenzhen Manufacturing (it's a news story, but you can find a ton of them with the same theme): https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3108207/china-manufacturing-stanley-black-decker-shuts-shenzhen https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3108207/c...
cactus2093 6y ago
This is somewhere near the very bottom of a ranked list of US problems in this pandemic. Manufacturing takes time to significantly ramp up regardless of where it is, it’s not clear there would have been a major difference between what we did in waiting until we could buy more masks overseas vs waiting for US production to ramp up. And we had supposedly already alleviated this problem anyway with national stockpiles, except that those had not been maintained. Fixing that mistake is much easier and probably even more effective than undoing the globalization of the past few decades. And honestly, by about April this year when China started having the virus under control and reopened their manufacturing sector at full capacity, it’s a good thing they were equipped to manufacture so many essential items. The US started running into capacity problems with some of the industries we do have like meat processing plants, if we relied more heavily on domestic manufacturing we actually would have been worse off over that period.
PKop 6y ago
>compete Have as your "goal" less the desire to "win" the global competition for corporate profits & corporate headquartering of multinationals in your nation simply on grounds of labor/profit competitiveness, and take a more nationalist view of, where necessary, having state run enterprises or "free market" competition within your borders but not complete free trade in a global sense. In other words, do no necessarily pursue as your goal to structure economy either to have most profitable companies that reduce costs by moving labor around the world to find cheapest workers, or those which try to export the most. Have as your goal at least to produce domestically as much as possible to satisfy domestic consumption demands, as well as having some minimal threshold of employed domestic workers. As it stands, US has a massive trade deficit, and a decades long decline in working age male population, especially in "flyover" US regions where manufacturing has declined the most while not being replaced by equivalent jobs. These regions also have declining population, rising suicide & opiate death rates, declining family formation / birthrates. The "telos" of our society should not put as its "end" an economy, especially one which pursues profit above all. The economy should be a tool in service to outcomes we actually desire. Like software built to do a job, not simply designed for the production of specific features. This is where global financial capitalism (as the US has a giant capital surplus which balances its trade deficit) needs to be called into question. Internal free markets is one thing. But not having a national industrial policy which prioritizes the well being of domestic workers and their families over well being of multinational corporations and banks makes our system quite degenerate over time. People should really take a few minutes and watch these 2 videos explaining the current account[0] and capital account[1] relationship, and understand that how we operate now is a political choice, which has massive consequences on who benefits of this system accrue to, and who pays the costs of this system. This system is maintained by having the reserve currency and the state using strong efforts over many years to not only maintain this GRC but strengthen it, not allowing the natural devaluation of the $ that would close these 2 imbalances and more closely balance capital and labor. Also, it is not a requirement to have a well developed economy and run massive trade deficits or not have a thriving industrial sector. Germany and Japan are 2 examples that do not run giant trade deficits like the US [3] https://youtu.be/dirBYVjDk7A https://youtu.be/dirBYVjDk7A [0] https://youtu.be/AimYG1jYD0A https://youtu.be/AimYG1jYD0A [1] https://www.conradbastable.com/essays/the-germany-shock-the-largest-economy-nobody-understands https://www.conradbastable.com/essays/the-germany-shock-the-... [3]
rjbwork 6y ago
Depends on the face mask you're talking about here. A friend of my brother works for a company that makes unrelated clothing, furniture, and other comfort type items. They make all of their products here in the USA. They started up mask production in march. They're high quality washable cloth masks. I bought a few and have been using them when I need to go out. They're about twice the price of similar ones on amazon but much higher quality. As for mass produced surgical masks? Yeah we don't have the manufacturing base for that sort of thing anymore unfortunately.

This is 100%, the fact the US can barely manufacturer face masks during a global pandemic is embarrassing. On the other end, how do you compete with slave labor in the Chinese factories?

daniellarusso 6y ago

US prison labor?

liquidify 6y ago

The consequences of that slave labor are far more on Chinese society than just the manufacturing dominance. There are a lot of things that are negative such as hatred of the CCP, that these policies are creating in China. The facade may look good, but there are cracks in China's foundation because of these decisions.

Thinkx220 6y ago

By lowering taxes and deregulating the economy.

vsskanth 6y ago

> how do you compete with slave labor in the Chinese factories? Trading blocs that ensure minimum working conditions. Companies which pay the worker a decent wage should get favorable tax treatment and procurement.

justinzollars 6y ago
Or technological improvements
- u801e 6y ago
  Some industries in China follow the 996[1] working hour system. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/996_working_hour_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/996_working_hour_system
sumedh 6y ago
> Trading blocs that ensure minimum working conditions. So China will just ship the goods to another country and change the Made in label. Some middle man will make money and nothing will change.

hungryhobo 6y ago

You are never gonna compete with chinese manufacturing if you believe their secret to success is slave labour. There are plenty of countries with worse working conditions yet but people seem to stick with china.

kurthr 6y ago

It's not about slave labor, it's about manufacturing equipment. I suspect it was turned down, because helping the northeast survive a pandemic was not perceived as worth any political risk/capital. https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/in-the-early-days-of-the-pandemic-the-us-government-turned-down-an-offer-to-manufacture-millions-of-n95-masks-in-america/2020/05/09/f76a821e-908a-11ea-a9c0-73b93422d691_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/in-the-early-d...

swswsw 6y ago
Wait. According to that article, the last major mask manufacturer in US offered to increase production and was turned down by government. > "In the end, the government did not take Bowen up on his offer. Even today[May 9, 2020], production lines that could be making more than 7 million masks a month sit dormant." That article was published in May 9. Even on May 9, the production lines were dormant. How could this happen? It is unfathomable. The country probably had masks shortage since March. It is so hard to believe some of the things that happened this year.

romanoderoma 6y ago

On the other hand Apple (to name one) piled an enormous amount of money thanks to slave labor in China. Paying peanuts in taxes How Apple avoided paying $40 billion in taxes https://fortune.com/2018/01/18/apple-bonuses-money-us-350-billion-taxes-trump/ https://fortune.com/2018/01/18/apple-bonuses-money-us-350-bi... Maybe the State could tax products manufactured abroad at 50% no matter where they keep the money. Using the simple formula: units sold * profit margin per unit * 50%

renewiltord 6y ago

Shenzhen factory labour is more expensive than America. The labour is higher quality, though.

aquaticsunset 6y ago
Got a citation for this?
zhdc1 6y ago
Average salary in Shenzhen (2019) was 127K yuan, or about $18K usd. Average salary (manufacturing) in the US is about $30K usd. I'm sure that after you adjust for cost of living, the numbers more or less look equal. However, keep in mind that manufacturing is leaving Shenzhen because of rising wages. Sources: Shenzhen Annual Salaries: http://www.sz.gov.cn/en_szgov/news/latest/content/post_7889482.html http://www.sz.gov.cn/en_szgov/news/latest/content/post_78894... US Annual Salaries: https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes519199.htm https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes519199.htm Shenzhen Manufacturing (it's a news story, but you can find a ton of them with the same theme): https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3108207/china-manufacturing-stanley-black-decker-shuts-shenzhen https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3108207/c...

cactus2093 6y ago

This is somewhere near the very bottom of a ranked list of US problems in this pandemic. Manufacturing takes time to significantly ramp up regardless of where it is, it’s not clear there would have been a major difference between what we did in waiting until we could buy more masks overseas vs waiting for US production to ramp up. And we had supposedly already alleviated this problem anyway with national stockpiles, except that those had not been maintained. Fixing that mistake is much easier and probably even more effective than undoing the globalization of the past few decades. And honestly, by about April this year when China started having the virus under control and reopened their manufacturing sector at full capacity, it’s a good thing they were equipped to manufacture so many essential items. The US started running into capacity problems with some of the industries we do have like meat processing plants, if we relied more heavily on domestic manufacturing we actually would have been worse off over that period.

PKop 6y ago

>compete Have as your "goal" less the desire to "win" the global competition for corporate profits & corporate headquartering of multinationals in your nation simply on grounds of labor/profit competitiveness, and take a more nationalist view of, where necessary, having state run enterprises or "free market" competition within your borders but not complete free trade in a global sense. In other words, do no necessarily pursue as your goal to structure economy either to have most profitable companies that reduce costs by moving labor around the world to find cheapest workers, or those which try to export the most. Have as your goal at least to produce domestically as much as possible to satisfy domestic consumption demands, as well as having some minimal threshold of employed domestic workers. As it stands, US has a massive trade deficit, and a decades long decline in working age male population, especially in "flyover" US regions where manufacturing has declined the most while not being replaced by equivalent jobs. These regions also have declining population, rising suicide & opiate death rates, declining family formation / birthrates. The "telos" of our society should not put as its "end" an economy, especially one which pursues profit above all. The economy should be a tool in service to outcomes we actually desire. Like software built to do a job, not simply designed for the production of specific features. This is where global financial capitalism (as the US has a giant capital surplus which balances its trade deficit) needs to be called into question. Internal free markets is one thing. But not having a national industrial policy which prioritizes the well being of domestic workers and their families over well being of multinational corporations and banks makes our system quite degenerate over time. People should really take a few minutes and watch these 2 videos explaining the current account[0] and capital account[1] relationship, and understand that how we operate now is a political choice, which has massive consequences on who benefits of this system accrue to, and who pays the costs of this system. This system is maintained by having the reserve currency and the state using strong efforts over many years to not only maintain this GRC but strengthen it, not allowing the natural devaluation of the $ that would close these 2 imbalances and more closely balance capital and labor. Also, it is not a requirement to have a well developed economy and run massive trade deficits or not have a thriving industrial sector. Germany and Japan are 2 examples that do not run giant trade deficits like the US [3] https://youtu.be/dirBYVjDk7A https://youtu.be/dirBYVjDk7A [0] https://youtu.be/AimYG1jYD0A https://youtu.be/AimYG1jYD0A [1] https://www.conradbastable.com/essays/the-germany-shock-the-largest-economy-nobody-understands https://www.conradbastable.com/essays/the-germany-shock-the-... [3]

rjbwork 6y ago

Depends on the face mask you're talking about here. A friend of my brother works for a company that makes unrelated clothing, furniture, and other comfort type items. They make all of their products here in the USA. They started up mask production in march. They're high quality washable cloth masks. I bought a few and have been using them when I need to go out. They're about twice the price of similar ones on amazon but much higher quality. As for mass produced surgical masks? Yeah we don't have the manufacturing base for that sort of thing anymore unfortunately.