6 ms·

This is something that Pfizer got asked about during the hearings on Friday -- their execs stated that they tried to recruit minorities heavily in the beginning

This is something that Pfizer got asked about during the hearings on Friday -- their execs stated that they tried to recruit minorities heavily in the beginning of the study and continued doing so in later recruiting rounds (I don't recall if they mentioned actual number though).

Pfhreak 6y ago
There's a lot of history there, unfortunately. The US medical establishment has a long track record of experimenting on Black people -- from performing experimental surgery (without anesthetic) on slaves to infecting Black US soldiers with syphilis to study how the disease progressed that continued until the 70s. All this to say nothing of how the medical establishment generally under serves minorities. There's quite a bit of writing on why it might be so hard for these major pharma corps to find volunteers from these communities.
- rossdavidh 6y ago
  If I were a black man in America, and they wanted me as a volunteer in Phase 1, I have to say that the history there would be a pretty big negative factor in my mind. Volunteering for Phase 1 is an act of trust, because by definition there's not much data yet. If I were an African-American, I don't know that I would have that kind of trust in big corporations.
  - pmiller2 6y ago
    Why would you trust big corporations as an American, period? History shows us that they will take every opportunity they are given to make or save a buck, from virtually enslaving people via company towns and company scrip, to killing people for unionizing, to polluting the places we live, to covering up evidence that their products do harm, and to suppressing evidence of the severity climate change for literal decades. These things are all so well known, it isn't even worth the effort to track down citations for them, and you still trust them?
    - xyzzyz 6y ago
      Maybe the corporations do sometimes positive stuff too. You know, like vaccines.
      - pmiller2 6y ago
        I hate to Godwin this thread already, but, you know, Hitler did positive things, too. For neither corporations nor Hitler do these things make up for literal crimes against humanity they have committed. https://www.quora.com/We-all-know-the-evil-that-Hitler-did-What-good-if-any-did-he-do?share=1 https://www.quora.com/We-all-know-the-evil-that-Hitler-did-W... Edit: Well, since people are obviously not even reading the link, I'm going to quote the bullet points from the first answer in nearly their entirety: > Nazi regime was the first to introduce animal rights and limited hunting seasons. Hitler had outlawed animal testing (who needs animals when you got thousands of Untermenschen). > Nazis had the first public anti smoking campaign at a time when smoking was not linked to cancer. > Hitler had authorized extensive research on cancer and various venereal diseases and abundance of medicine for public. > Nazi labour laws were best in contemporary world. Reduced work hours, periodic breaks, paid holidays and sponsored trips to Italy as perks. > Promoted sports culture among youth which led to Germany being a sports power house. > Hosted the 1936 Berlin Olympics. > Hitler had announced loans of 1000 Reichsmark (10 month salary in 1939) for married couples at minimal interest and waivers for birth of first child. > Volkswagen - people's car. Personalized Cars for average germans was laid out in 1937. Volkswagen is an extremely popular brand now. > German Autobahn(super highways) was introduced in Hitler's era. > Hitler had forbade German army from using mustard gas or any sort of chemical weapons on enemy forces because of the trauma he suffered in WW1 from mustard gas. As a result, deadly gas warfare of WW 1 was never seen in WW 2. > Nazis were pioneers in rocket science. America's space programs were guided and led by former Nazi scientists like Werner von Braun and Arthur Rudolph.
        foldingmoney 6y ago
        > Nazi labour laws were best in contemporary world. Reduced work hours, periodic breaks, paid holidays and sponsored trips to Italy as perks. They got sponsored trips to a lot of places in Europe: Poland, France, Russia...probably best to avoid that last one though.
  - oh_sigh 6y ago
    If I were a black man in America, which I am, and they wanted me as as volunteer in Phase 1, I'd say hell yes. You say "if I were a black man", as if you have any idea of what it means to be a black man in America
- ksml 6y ago
  Serious question, can someone who downvoted the parent comment please explain why? This sounds in line with what I've heard about treatment of African Americans by the US medical system, so I would love to hear if there is evidence to say this is wrong.
dm319 6y ago
The paper is available [1]. They did a reasonable job - 9% black/african-american and nearly 30% latino (the trial was run in Argentina and Brazil). Subgroup analysis similar efficacy between groups. Around 25% were more than 65. Maybe not so ideal as that is one of the key groups. Immunocompromised were excluded, which is understandable, but the data would have been interesting. [1] https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2034577?query=RP https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2034577?query=RP
- baud147258 6y ago
  > the trial was run in Argentina and Brazil why not run the trial in the country where the vaccine is going to be sold?
  - dm319 6y ago
    To keep your market larger? /s Most trials were run in countries where a large number of new cases were expected over the trial period. Government measures in almost all first world countries brought the R rate right down, which is disastrous for a trial looking for results.
  - Rapzid 6y ago
    Brazil just committed to purchasing 70 million doses..

Pfhreak 6y ago

There's a lot of history there, unfortunately. The US medical establishment has a long track record of experimenting on Black people -- from performing experimental surgery (without anesthetic) on slaves to infecting Black US soldiers with syphilis to study how the disease progressed that continued until the 70s. All this to say nothing of how the medical establishment generally under serves minorities. There's quite a bit of writing on why it might be so hard for these major pharma corps to find volunteers from these communities.

rossdavidh 6y ago
If I were a black man in America, and they wanted me as a volunteer in Phase 1, I have to say that the history there would be a pretty big negative factor in my mind. Volunteering for Phase 1 is an act of trust, because by definition there's not much data yet. If I were an African-American, I don't know that I would have that kind of trust in big corporations.
- pmiller2 6y ago
  Why would you trust big corporations as an American, period? History shows us that they will take every opportunity they are given to make or save a buck, from virtually enslaving people via company towns and company scrip, to killing people for unionizing, to polluting the places we live, to covering up evidence that their products do harm, and to suppressing evidence of the severity climate change for literal decades. These things are all so well known, it isn't even worth the effort to track down citations for them, and you still trust them?
  - xyzzyz 6y ago
    Maybe the corporations do sometimes positive stuff too. You know, like vaccines.
    - pmiller2 6y ago
      I hate to Godwin this thread already, but, you know, Hitler did positive things, too. For neither corporations nor Hitler do these things make up for literal crimes against humanity they have committed. https://www.quora.com/We-all-know-the-evil-that-Hitler-did-What-good-if-any-did-he-do?share=1 https://www.quora.com/We-all-know-the-evil-that-Hitler-did-W... Edit: Well, since people are obviously not even reading the link, I'm going to quote the bullet points from the first answer in nearly their entirety: > Nazi regime was the first to introduce animal rights and limited hunting seasons. Hitler had outlawed animal testing (who needs animals when you got thousands of Untermenschen). > Nazis had the first public anti smoking campaign at a time when smoking was not linked to cancer. > Hitler had authorized extensive research on cancer and various venereal diseases and abundance of medicine for public. > Nazi labour laws were best in contemporary world. Reduced work hours, periodic breaks, paid holidays and sponsored trips to Italy as perks. > Promoted sports culture among youth which led to Germany being a sports power house. > Hosted the 1936 Berlin Olympics. > Hitler had announced loans of 1000 Reichsmark (10 month salary in 1939) for married couples at minimal interest and waivers for birth of first child. > Volkswagen - people's car. Personalized Cars for average germans was laid out in 1937. Volkswagen is an extremely popular brand now. > German Autobahn(super highways) was introduced in Hitler's era. > Hitler had forbade German army from using mustard gas or any sort of chemical weapons on enemy forces because of the trauma he suffered in WW1 from mustard gas. As a result, deadly gas warfare of WW 1 was never seen in WW 2. > Nazis were pioneers in rocket science. America's space programs were guided and led by former Nazi scientists like Werner von Braun and Arthur Rudolph.
      - foldingmoney 6y ago
        > Nazi labour laws were best in contemporary world. Reduced work hours, periodic breaks, paid holidays and sponsored trips to Italy as perks. They got sponsored trips to a lot of places in Europe: Poland, France, Russia...probably best to avoid that last one though.
- oh_sigh 6y ago
  If I were a black man in America, which I am, and they wanted me as as volunteer in Phase 1, I'd say hell yes. You say "if I were a black man", as if you have any idea of what it means to be a black man in America
ksml 6y ago
Serious question, can someone who downvoted the parent comment please explain why? This sounds in line with what I've heard about treatment of African Americans by the US medical system, so I would love to hear if there is evidence to say this is wrong.

dm319 6y ago

The paper is available [1]. They did a reasonable job - 9% black/african-american and nearly 30% latino (the trial was run in Argentina and Brazil). Subgroup analysis similar efficacy between groups. Around 25% were more than 65. Maybe not so ideal as that is one of the key groups. Immunocompromised were excluded, which is understandable, but the data would have been interesting. [1] https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2034577?query=RP https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2034577?query=RP

baud147258 6y ago
> the trial was run in Argentina and Brazil why not run the trial in the country where the vaccine is going to be sold?
- dm319 6y ago
  To keep your market larger? /s Most trials were run in countries where a large number of new cases were expected over the trial period. Government measures in almost all first world countries brought the R rate right down, which is disastrous for a trial looking for results.
- Rapzid 6y ago
  Brazil just committed to purchasing 70 million doses..