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> The neat thing is that any foreigner can study any subject at any University in Germany for free. This statement is not true. It is the case though that many

> The neat thing is that any foreigner can study any subject at any University in Germany for free. This statement is not true. It is the case though that many if not most public German universities have costs that run in the very low thousands i.e. 1-5k for total degree costs. However, there are some drawbacks to the way this system works. For one, you will be hard pressed to find online degree offerings or continuing studies options from public Universities (i.e. these types of low costs offerings) that allow you to continue your education while working fulltime. Most of these come from private institutions or specific programs which have higher costs typically running in the 10k+ cost range area. Its great if you are a student graduating from high school and going to university - you won't be burdened with high costs. However, the public system largely still neglects (this lone University being the only example in all of Germany which I am aware of) many other situations where people might want to further their education. We do have something called Volkshochschulen, which is in some ways similar to Junior Colleges in the United States and provides some level of extended studies at a public level, but anyway, I won't go into details, suffice it to say the systems don't translate one-to-one onto each other and there are cons with our system as well.

est31 6y ago
> this lone University being the only example in all of Germany which I am aware of Yes indeed this is the only state run distance-learning university, but I'd argue that you only really need one such institution. After all, you can study from anywhere :). They have regional centers in many German towns, but for most courses you only need to be there for the exams at the end of the semester, so you can also study hours away from the next regional center. And it's quite successful. By number of enrolled students, it's the largest university of Germany at 77k, with the runner up having only 56k students.
- DataDaoDe 6y ago
  Agreed. Its fantastic we have any such place. However, having had conversations with friends and family outside of Germany, they usually hear the costs and then imagine the system in the USA or their home country just with much lower costs. And this is just not the case. Our German system is a very different system from the USA at all levels which complicates direct comparisons. Regardless, I think initiatives like this one which in general provide more opportunites to more people to better their lives is something I would like to see more of, not just in Germany but all over the world.
  - estaseuropano 6y ago
    The system in Germany is much less stratified than US, UK or even China. There are few "top" universities if you look at the global rankings, which probably comes from both the lower budgets and the lower incentives to compete on the ranking metrics. But the German universities consistently perform well; Germany really has no bad (public) universities. The atmosphere is very different and having studied in the UK i see the merits of both: a UK university basically runs like a school with a very strong support system and 1:1 touch with academics. In Germany its really a more "mass" approach in lectures and then seminars with lower ranking staff, not the actual professors. Also less other support e.g. psychologists, tech support,.. To succeed at a German university you have to grow up ;) Also interestingly German universities seem to be much more political places. The UK I experienced as filled with extracurricular stuff, while in Germany there's much less of that and in return a much more vibrant political and debate culture.
- benibela 6y ago
  With covid, every university became a distance-learning university
morelisp 6y ago
A small nitpick: A Volkshochschule is usually better compared to a community college (open to "everyone" and the main inexpensive option for adults seeking more education outside their career). "Junior college" is closer in connotation to a Fachhochschule or even a Berufsschule.
- Tomte 6y ago
  Isn't a community college a real professional education? Volkshochschule courses are usually languages, painting, photography, cooking etc. The teachers are usually non-professionals. The course is usually about ten weeks of one or one and a half hours.
  - morelisp 6y ago
    Community colleges in the US serve three roles: - Onboarding students directly out of secondary schools who don't yet have the academic requirements or financial ability for university, usually with intent to use this as a springboard to a cheaper university education; usually this terminates with a transfer to a university (and may or may not include an associate degree); - Providing formal education for people interested in changing or advancing their career; usually this terminates with an associate degree; - Providing formal but "casual" adult education, which includes the kind of courses you find at a Volkshochschule but also simply introductory tertiary courses (many of which would actually be final secondary courses outside the US) - the teachers are usually professionals but there's no expectation for the students to "use" the knowledge and auditing may be as common as taking the course for credit. The main thing I want to point out is to avoid translating Volkshochschule as "junior college" which has an increasingly negative connotation in US English. Most decent junior colleges have expanded their programs and rebranded to full community colleges (or even universities) now and the term is mostly used for private, for-profit, vocational training. (I should also add these terms vary a lot across English-speaking countries; I'm just referring to the US here.)
wirrbel 6y ago
There is an administrative fee usually that is in the low 3 digit range per semester, I’d assume it’s still below 200€ per semester and usually includes a ticket for the local public transit. When I studied a real fee was introduced (2007 iirc) and abolished again before I graduated. Volkshochschule is not a college but does offer yoga and knitting classes, some language classes and maybe a computing class for seniors.. nothing that would prepare you for a career
- realityking 6y ago
  > nothing that would prepare you for a career I generally agree with you but this is a little too far. At least bigger Volkshochschulen do offer non-academic qualifications, especially in the area of continuous education for those with existing qualifications. Besides languages, this ranges from various finance and law classes for people who are starting their own business, over “Ausbildung der Ausbilder” (Train the Trainer but a formal qualification the German dual system), to certificates like CCNA. The courses that are offered vary widely between cities, it’s difficult to generalize. What you find is courses that are job-qualifying degrees. The VHS is really structured around taking individual, stand-alone, courses. The one exception I can think of is that some VHS’ are offering “Hauptschulabschluss” for those who left school without graduating.
estaseuropano 6y ago
That lone university is exactly intended to be the only one. No reason to compete if there's no economic reason to compete. They are qualitative, reasonably priced and tend to have good reviews. Sadly the Fernuni is in one way stuck in the past: for many (all?) courses there are mandatory presence seminars. You can do the exams at many places in Germany (e.g. Volkshochschulen) and at all embassies and Goethe institutes abroad, but for the seminars you have to still go in person it seems. Else I would long have done a Fernuni degree.
aitait 6y ago
"Volkshochschulen" Volkshochschule are "low level" community training courses. Yet many people successfully learned Languages there. It is far below a University or a poly-technical college. It has nothing do do with a real degree. FUN FACT: I read once a Serbian guy took a course there in Economics, had the certificate translated into Serbian and the translator translated "Volkshochschule", to "Peoples University" and became an Economics professor with this certifica in Serbia until the whole scam became public. To give you the perspective: Basically every guy here on Hackernews could give a "Python course" there or something. for 2 hours every week for 6 months and one of the attendees would manage to become a CS professor with this.

est31 6y ago

> this lone University being the only example in all of Germany which I am aware of Yes indeed this is the only state run distance-learning university, but I'd argue that you only really need one such institution. After all, you can study from anywhere :). They have regional centers in many German towns, but for most courses you only need to be there for the exams at the end of the semester, so you can also study hours away from the next regional center. And it's quite successful. By number of enrolled students, it's the largest university of Germany at 77k, with the runner up having only 56k students.

DataDaoDe 6y ago
Agreed. Its fantastic we have any such place. However, having had conversations with friends and family outside of Germany, they usually hear the costs and then imagine the system in the USA or their home country just with much lower costs. And this is just not the case. Our German system is a very different system from the USA at all levels which complicates direct comparisons. Regardless, I think initiatives like this one which in general provide more opportunites to more people to better their lives is something I would like to see more of, not just in Germany but all over the world.
- estaseuropano 6y ago
  The system in Germany is much less stratified than US, UK or even China. There are few "top" universities if you look at the global rankings, which probably comes from both the lower budgets and the lower incentives to compete on the ranking metrics. But the German universities consistently perform well; Germany really has no bad (public) universities. The atmosphere is very different and having studied in the UK i see the merits of both: a UK university basically runs like a school with a very strong support system and 1:1 touch with academics. In Germany its really a more "mass" approach in lectures and then seminars with lower ranking staff, not the actual professors. Also less other support e.g. psychologists, tech support,.. To succeed at a German university you have to grow up ;) Also interestingly German universities seem to be much more political places. The UK I experienced as filled with extracurricular stuff, while in Germany there's much less of that and in return a much more vibrant political and debate culture.
benibela 6y ago
With covid, every university became a distance-learning university

morelisp 6y ago

A small nitpick: A Volkshochschule is usually better compared to a community college (open to "everyone" and the main inexpensive option for adults seeking more education outside their career). "Junior college" is closer in connotation to a Fachhochschule or even a Berufsschule.

Tomte 6y ago
Isn't a community college a real professional education? Volkshochschule courses are usually languages, painting, photography, cooking etc. The teachers are usually non-professionals. The course is usually about ten weeks of one or one and a half hours.
- morelisp 6y ago
  Community colleges in the US serve three roles: - Onboarding students directly out of secondary schools who don't yet have the academic requirements or financial ability for university, usually with intent to use this as a springboard to a cheaper university education; usually this terminates with a transfer to a university (and may or may not include an associate degree); - Providing formal education for people interested in changing or advancing their career; usually this terminates with an associate degree; - Providing formal but "casual" adult education, which includes the kind of courses you find at a Volkshochschule but also simply introductory tertiary courses (many of which would actually be final secondary courses outside the US) - the teachers are usually professionals but there's no expectation for the students to "use" the knowledge and auditing may be as common as taking the course for credit. The main thing I want to point out is to avoid translating Volkshochschule as "junior college" which has an increasingly negative connotation in US English. Most decent junior colleges have expanded their programs and rebranded to full community colleges (or even universities) now and the term is mostly used for private, for-profit, vocational training. (I should also add these terms vary a lot across English-speaking countries; I'm just referring to the US here.)

wirrbel 6y ago

There is an administrative fee usually that is in the low 3 digit range per semester, I’d assume it’s still below 200€ per semester and usually includes a ticket for the local public transit. When I studied a real fee was introduced (2007 iirc) and abolished again before I graduated. Volkshochschule is not a college but does offer yoga and knitting classes, some language classes and maybe a computing class for seniors.. nothing that would prepare you for a career

realityking 6y ago
> nothing that would prepare you for a career I generally agree with you but this is a little too far. At least bigger Volkshochschulen do offer non-academic qualifications, especially in the area of continuous education for those with existing qualifications. Besides languages, this ranges from various finance and law classes for people who are starting their own business, over “Ausbildung der Ausbilder” (Train the Trainer but a formal qualification the German dual system), to certificates like CCNA. The courses that are offered vary widely between cities, it’s difficult to generalize. What you find is courses that are job-qualifying degrees. The VHS is really structured around taking individual, stand-alone, courses. The one exception I can think of is that some VHS’ are offering “Hauptschulabschluss” for those who left school without graduating.

estaseuropano 6y ago

That lone university is exactly intended to be the only one. No reason to compete if there's no economic reason to compete. They are qualitative, reasonably priced and tend to have good reviews. Sadly the Fernuni is in one way stuck in the past: for many (all?) courses there are mandatory presence seminars. You can do the exams at many places in Germany (e.g. Volkshochschulen) and at all embassies and Goethe institutes abroad, but for the seminars you have to still go in person it seems. Else I would long have done a Fernuni degree.

aitait 6y ago

"Volkshochschulen" Volkshochschule are "low level" community training courses. Yet many people successfully learned Languages there. It is far below a University or a poly-technical college. It has nothing do do with a real degree. FUN FACT: I read once a Serbian guy took a course there in Economics, had the certificate translated into Serbian and the translator translated "Volkshochschule", to "Peoples University" and became an Economics professor with this certifica in Serbia until the whole scam became public. To give you the perspective: Basically every guy here on Hackernews could give a "Python course" there or something. for 2 hours every week for 6 months and one of the attendees would manage to become a CS professor with this.