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I think this take is not particularly insightful. It reminds me of the fact that Fight Club was also supposed to be “a warning.” The interesting question is why

I think this take is not particularly insightful. It reminds me of the fact that Fight Club was also supposed to be “a warning.” The interesting question is why these are appealing to so many (myself included) and what that says about our current culture and society. My theory is that its appeal is largely aesthetic, as in an all-encompassing aesthetic. “Regular life” in 2020 in a Western country is a fairly drab affair. All the new buildings have the same boring style, a monoculture pervades everything, and the notion of something being deliberately secret or hidden is antithetical to the social media generation. Deleuze (the philosopher) has a concept called deterritorialization which I think is relevant here. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deterritorialization https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deterritorialization Ergo, a ruined mess of a city with bizarre, hidden subcultures and disturbing body modifications becomes appealing, even if the overall society portrayed is dystopian. The same appeal is there with something like Kowloon Walled City. At its core, cyberpunk (the genre) is a reaction against the homogeneity of modern technological society. That’s my take, at least.

Mandelmus 6y ago
It's long been a pet peeve of mine (to put it mildly) how our entertainment industry aestheticizes violence, tragedy, dystopia, and criminals, but then claims to intend the opposite. Walter White in Breaking Bad is supposedly the protagonist in a tragic story about the corrupting effects of criminality, greed, and the drug trade, yet the most memorable and culturally cited impressions are of how badass and powerful Heisenberg is. Games are notoriously bad at this (the favoured term here is "ludonarrative dissonance") where some games pretend to denounce violence in their stories or cutscenes, but the gameplay makes mass violence the most gratifying and fun part of the entire experience. And if anyone were to criticise the educational/cultural impact of such aesthetic distortions, the inevitable killer argument in return is "free speech" and "artistic freedom" and instant panic about the threat of censorship. (As an aside, as a European I find it especially striking how depictions of even artistic and consensual adult sexuality or even just plain nudity are considered far more corrupting and "taboo" in US culture than depictions of violence. I think that's fundamentally fucked up. Some brief nudity? Rated R. People getting shot? PG-13.)
- CapricornNoble 6y ago
  Many of America's first colonists were the people who were kicked out of Europe because they were too prudish. That Puritan streak has never really gone away here.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

Mandelmus 6y ago

It's long been a pet peeve of mine (to put it mildly) how our entertainment industry aestheticizes violence, tragedy, dystopia, and criminals, but then claims to intend the opposite. Walter White in Breaking Bad is supposedly the protagonist in a tragic story about the corrupting effects of criminality, greed, and the drug trade, yet the most memorable and culturally cited impressions are of how badass and powerful Heisenberg is. Games are notoriously bad at this (the favoured term here is "ludonarrative dissonance") where some games pretend to denounce violence in their stories or cutscenes, but the gameplay makes mass violence the most gratifying and fun part of the entire experience. And if anyone were to criticise the educational/cultural impact of such aesthetic distortions, the inevitable killer argument in return is "free speech" and "artistic freedom" and instant panic about the threat of censorship. (As an aside, as a European I find it especially striking how depictions of even artistic and consensual adult sexuality or even just plain nudity are considered far more corrupting and "taboo" in US culture than depictions of violence. I think that's fundamentally fucked up. Some brief nudity? Rated R. People getting shot? PG-13.)

CapricornNoble 6y ago
Many of America's first colonists were the people who were kicked out of Europe because they were too prudish. That Puritan streak has never really gone away here.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]