5 ms·

If Big Brother hadn't told you about Covid, would you even know?

ukj 6y ago
If Big Brother hadn't published 1984 would you even know how they really operate? (this comment is a tribute to https://xkcd.com/966/ https://xkcd.com/966/ )
- feralimal 6y ago
  I'm not clear what your position is, but what does it say about one, in one can only see the tyranny in a book but not be able to see it in real life?
  - pjc50 6y ago
    That it's not there or at least looks radically different?
    - 082349872349872 6y ago
      Well, the part about Airstrip One having always been part of Oceania is due to hit at the end of the year... (although I guess we still don't know exactly how, yet)
  - ukj 6y ago
    I am able to see both Orwell’s tyranny AND Huxley’s tyranny. If I frame all dysfunctional human interactions through the lens of “tyranny” then I see “tyranny” everywhere. That is how all confirmation biases works. That is why they are all uninteresting. Falsifying one’s own biases is much more fun... The world today is less tyrannical (as per Orwell’s concept) than it was when he was alive. Only when you ignore all moral progress do you get to paint contemporary society with Orwell’s brush.
    - mistermann 6y ago
      Might there be some confirmation bias at work here?
      - ukj 6y ago
        Might you be responding to half of my post?
        mistermann 6y ago
        Of course ("some")! The question stands.
        ukj 6y ago
        It stands indeed. It stands a few lines below the answer.
        mistermann 6y ago
        The answer being...?
        ukj 6y ago
        >Falsifying one’s own biases is much more fun... Meaning... Looking for evidence AGAINST the very thing you've convinced yourself of.
        mistermann 6y ago
        It seems we agree after all. My mind was attracted to this particular idea: "That is why they are all uninteresting." I happen to believe that confirmation biases (and their various relatives) are infinitely interesting, and also that there is infinite value in understanding them and their systemic consequences. The irony(?) of the situation is that finding even one individual who shares this belief is exceptionally rare, and I have been through an extremely broad spectrum of communities. This also seems rather interesting as well.
Enginerrrd 6y ago
I mean, my wife is a nurse in an ICU that has had to triple capacity in the last 6 weeks and still has less than 15% capacity remaining, so, yeah, I'd imagine I'd have some inkling.
- feralimal 6y ago
  Tripling capacity in flu season, after having cleared out the hospitals and cancelled all the operations in previous months, doesn't say anything to me. We are living in a clown show. If this was real, we would see bodies on the streets, and the government would be fighting to keep businesses open. We don't and its not. This is just the first stage to a transition of a new economic paradigm - technocracy - where there are no small businesses, everything and everyone is tracked and traced, were we will own nothing, and be completely dependent on government/corporations/military. And most people are cheering this on. Shout some more hate at Goldstein!!
- kardianos 6y ago
  So, like 2018? https://www.statnews.com/2018/01/15/flu-hospital-pandemics/ https://www.statnews.com/2018/01/15/flu-hospital-pandemics/ SARS2-COVID-19 is a novel virus. True. Would we notice without modern medicine and rtPCR tests? I'm not convinced.
  - Enginerrrd 6y ago
    >Would we notice without modern medicine and rtPCR tests? I'm not convinced. With all due respect, this statement tells me with near-certainty that you've never worked a patient-facing role in healthcare. The fact that you feel free to espouse your opinion on the subject directly related to patient-facing care should be a red flag to you. I have worked in healthcare as a paramedic. My wife is a nurse. My mother is a nurse. My brother-in-law is an MD. The public-health policy makers usually have worked in patient-facing healthcare. My local public health director was one of the best and brightest physicians I've EVER met. He cut his teeth working on eradicating smallpox in his youth, and has remarkable depth in his knowledge of epidemiology. ...All of us agree that this definitely IS different than the status quo. It is NOT different from historical precedent though, and there are many people that are quite alert to these things. These same people would notice unusual clusters of patients suggesting a terrorist attack, chemical exposure, water contamination, etc. Just because it requires knowledge you do not have doesn't mean that experts wouldn't have identified this. Which, funny enough, is exactly what DID happen.
wittyreference 6y ago
I'm a physician in a hospital that has literally entire floor units - plural - occupied by nothing but dyspnea, a respiratory step-down unit that has become an expansion of the ICU, residents pulled off of every non-internal medicine training program to supplement the internal medicine teams, fellows pulled out of their training programs to supplement the hospitalists, and an ICU so packed that it looks like a bathroom at football stadium. Eh, I probably would've noticed something's up.
_jal 6y ago
Denialism conspiracy bullshit has no place here. If you're actually so sheltered that you cannot see it, you should give thanks. If not, I have nothing but contempt. Either way, take your black propaganda somewhere else.
inglor_cz 6y ago
If anything, Big Brother in countries like Iran tried to downplay the information.
stordoff 6y ago
After spending ten days in an ICU (with happy hypoxia[1]), and seeing it hospitalise a member of my family for about a month, leave one almost bedridden for days and with a metallic taste in the mouth for weeks, and two others with cough/fatigue/completely no sense of taste, I'd've probably suspected something was up. Could I rule known diseases? Maybe not, but it'd have to have hit us usually hard and with an unusual set of symptoms. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/03/happy-hypoxia-unusual-coronavirus-effect-baffles-doctors https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/03/happy-hypoxia-...

ukj 6y ago

If Big Brother hadn't published 1984 would you even know how they really operate? (this comment is a tribute to https://xkcd.com/966/ https://xkcd.com/966/ )

feralimal 6y ago
I'm not clear what your position is, but what does it say about one, in one can only see the tyranny in a book but not be able to see it in real life?
- pjc50 6y ago
  That it's not there or at least looks radically different?
  - 082349872349872 6y ago
    Well, the part about Airstrip One having always been part of Oceania is due to hit at the end of the year... (although I guess we still don't know exactly how, yet)
- ukj 6y ago
  I am able to see both Orwell’s tyranny AND Huxley’s tyranny. If I frame all dysfunctional human interactions through the lens of “tyranny” then I see “tyranny” everywhere. That is how all confirmation biases works. That is why they are all uninteresting. Falsifying one’s own biases is much more fun... The world today is less tyrannical (as per Orwell’s concept) than it was when he was alive. Only when you ignore all moral progress do you get to paint contemporary society with Orwell’s brush.
  - mistermann 6y ago
    Might there be some confirmation bias at work here?
    - ukj 6y ago
      Might you be responding to half of my post?
      - mistermann 6y ago
        Of course ("some")! The question stands.
        ukj 6y ago
        It stands indeed. It stands a few lines below the answer.
        mistermann 6y ago
        The answer being...?
        ukj 6y ago
        >Falsifying one’s own biases is much more fun... Meaning... Looking for evidence AGAINST the very thing you've convinced yourself of.
        mistermann 6y ago
        It seems we agree after all. My mind was attracted to this particular idea: "That is why they are all uninteresting." I happen to believe that confirmation biases (and their various relatives) are infinitely interesting, and also that there is infinite value in understanding them and their systemic consequences. The irony(?) of the situation is that finding even one individual who shares this belief is exceptionally rare, and I have been through an extremely broad spectrum of communities. This also seems rather interesting as well.

Enginerrrd 6y ago

I mean, my wife is a nurse in an ICU that has had to triple capacity in the last 6 weeks and still has less than 15% capacity remaining, so, yeah, I'd imagine I'd have some inkling.

feralimal 6y ago
Tripling capacity in flu season, after having cleared out the hospitals and cancelled all the operations in previous months, doesn't say anything to me. We are living in a clown show. If this was real, we would see bodies on the streets, and the government would be fighting to keep businesses open. We don't and its not. This is just the first stage to a transition of a new economic paradigm - technocracy - where there are no small businesses, everything and everyone is tracked and traced, were we will own nothing, and be completely dependent on government/corporations/military. And most people are cheering this on. Shout some more hate at Goldstein!!
kardianos 6y ago
So, like 2018? https://www.statnews.com/2018/01/15/flu-hospital-pandemics/ https://www.statnews.com/2018/01/15/flu-hospital-pandemics/ SARS2-COVID-19 is a novel virus. True. Would we notice without modern medicine and rtPCR tests? I'm not convinced.
- Enginerrrd 6y ago
  >Would we notice without modern medicine and rtPCR tests? I'm not convinced. With all due respect, this statement tells me with near-certainty that you've never worked a patient-facing role in healthcare. The fact that you feel free to espouse your opinion on the subject directly related to patient-facing care should be a red flag to you. I have worked in healthcare as a paramedic. My wife is a nurse. My mother is a nurse. My brother-in-law is an MD. The public-health policy makers usually have worked in patient-facing healthcare. My local public health director was one of the best and brightest physicians I've EVER met. He cut his teeth working on eradicating smallpox in his youth, and has remarkable depth in his knowledge of epidemiology. ...All of us agree that this definitely IS different than the status quo. It is NOT different from historical precedent though, and there are many people that are quite alert to these things. These same people would notice unusual clusters of patients suggesting a terrorist attack, chemical exposure, water contamination, etc. Just because it requires knowledge you do not have doesn't mean that experts wouldn't have identified this. Which, funny enough, is exactly what DID happen.

wittyreference 6y ago

I'm a physician in a hospital that has literally entire floor units - plural - occupied by nothing but dyspnea, a respiratory step-down unit that has become an expansion of the ICU, residents pulled off of every non-internal medicine training program to supplement the internal medicine teams, fellows pulled out of their training programs to supplement the hospitalists, and an ICU so packed that it looks like a bathroom at football stadium. Eh, I probably would've noticed something's up.

_jal 6y ago

Denialism conspiracy bullshit has no place here. If you're actually so sheltered that you cannot see it, you should give thanks. If not, I have nothing but contempt. Either way, take your black propaganda somewhere else.

inglor_cz 6y ago

If anything, Big Brother in countries like Iran tried to downplay the information.

stordoff 6y ago

After spending ten days in an ICU (with happy hypoxia[1]), and seeing it hospitalise a member of my family for about a month, leave one almost bedridden for days and with a metallic taste in the mouth for weeks, and two others with cough/fatigue/completely no sense of taste, I'd've probably suspected something was up. Could I rule known diseases? Maybe not, but it'd have to have hit us usually hard and with an unusual set of symptoms. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/03/happy-hypoxia-unusual-coronavirus-effect-baffles-doctors https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/03/happy-hypoxia-...