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The problem is automated and centralised surveillance. The government can aggregate this data and build movement patterns on all citizens. They might not do it,

The problem is automated and centralised surveillance. The government can aggregate this data and build movement patterns on all citizens. They might not do it, but they could. And once something to exert power is possible, It'll be done eventually.

krapp 6y ago
Governments arguably have a public safety interest in aggregating traffic data and being able to identify potential criminal suspects by vehicle. Yes, they could abuse that in some nebulous Orwellian future, but data collection and analysis isn't evil in and of itself. Also, this is public data. Anyone sitting behind you in traffic has your license plate number, your employer and anyone you schedule appointments with can predict your behavior to a degree. Your movements were never that private to begin with. If you want to be afraid of someone, be afraid of businesses, and what they can know based on analyzing customer data.
- carlhjerpe 6y ago
  Governments have their own self interest at heart, second comes everything else. My license plate is indeed public information, should someone follow me around and document evertything I'm doing. I'm fine with that as the amount of resources required to perform this far outweighs any potential gains. When It's automated by computers It's very cheap. I'm no expert in image classification technology, but i imagine a top of the line Xeon could extract license plate information and the parts of the images containing humans (for later cross reference with some other dataset) a couple thousand times a second. Meaning it'll cost close to nothing. Yes, we should be vary of the data everyone is collecting. I remember a friend of mine saying his grandmother was so suprised she always got offers in the mail from ICA (Big grocery store company in Sweden) on the products she purchases. Completely unaware that they're tracking every purchase she makes because of her membership card.
lotsofpulp 6y ago
They already have access to everyone’s movement patterns via mobile networks and mobile devices.
- carlhjerpe 6y ago
  This is indeed a problem too, but it's avoidable if you want to put in the work
randompwd 6y ago
That wasn't your argument: > The privacy implications of taking a photograph of everyone, process "who they are" (reg plate, generally driven by family member) is horrifying.
thrwyoilarticle 6y ago
>The government can aggregate this data and build movement patterns on all citizens. Yes. So? Sounds useful. Sounds like the Google maps data that people used to track lockdowns. Now you don't need to pay for traffic censuses.
- carlhjerpe 6y ago
  Ask someone in China how they're feeling about being constantly monitored in every concieveable way. You'll of course think "Well that's China, we don't have that kind of mass surveillance here". And then one bill after another you're right there in the boat with them.
  - thrwyoilarticle 6y ago
    Then ANPR is hardly the bottleneck. If they're able to get the tracking legislated, they'll be able to get cameras. If we're going to avoid technology just for vague allusions to dictatorships, we should get rid of the autobahn too. You could ask the victims of the FBI's 'Highway Serial Killings' initiative how they'd feel about it. But they're dead.

krapp 6y ago

Governments arguably have a public safety interest in aggregating traffic data and being able to identify potential criminal suspects by vehicle. Yes, they could abuse that in some nebulous Orwellian future, but data collection and analysis isn't evil in and of itself. Also, this is public data. Anyone sitting behind you in traffic has your license plate number, your employer and anyone you schedule appointments with can predict your behavior to a degree. Your movements were never that private to begin with. If you want to be afraid of someone, be afraid of businesses, and what they can know based on analyzing customer data.

carlhjerpe 6y ago
Governments have their own self interest at heart, second comes everything else. My license plate is indeed public information, should someone follow me around and document evertything I'm doing. I'm fine with that as the amount of resources required to perform this far outweighs any potential gains. When It's automated by computers It's very cheap. I'm no expert in image classification technology, but i imagine a top of the line Xeon could extract license plate information and the parts of the images containing humans (for later cross reference with some other dataset) a couple thousand times a second. Meaning it'll cost close to nothing. Yes, we should be vary of the data everyone is collecting. I remember a friend of mine saying his grandmother was so suprised she always got offers in the mail from ICA (Big grocery store company in Sweden) on the products she purchases. Completely unaware that they're tracking every purchase she makes because of her membership card.

lotsofpulp 6y ago

They already have access to everyone’s movement patterns via mobile networks and mobile devices.

carlhjerpe 6y ago
This is indeed a problem too, but it's avoidable if you want to put in the work

randompwd 6y ago

That wasn't your argument: > The privacy implications of taking a photograph of everyone, process "who they are" (reg plate, generally driven by family member) is horrifying.

thrwyoilarticle 6y ago

>The government can aggregate this data and build movement patterns on all citizens. Yes. So? Sounds useful. Sounds like the Google maps data that people used to track lockdowns. Now you don't need to pay for traffic censuses.

carlhjerpe 6y ago
Ask someone in China how they're feeling about being constantly monitored in every concieveable way. You'll of course think "Well that's China, we don't have that kind of mass surveillance here". And then one bill after another you're right there in the boat with them.
- thrwyoilarticle 6y ago
  Then ANPR is hardly the bottleneck. If they're able to get the tracking legislated, they'll be able to get cameras. If we're going to avoid technology just for vague allusions to dictatorships, we should get rid of the autobahn too. You could ask the victims of the FBI's 'Highway Serial Killings' initiative how they'd feel about it. But they're dead.