5 ms·

Undocumented immigrants far less likely to commit crimes in U.S. than citizens

curiousgal 6y ago
Realistically speaking this changes nothing. The U.S. has long entered a post-truth era. Citing this study will in no way change the mind of whoever you are debating with over immigration reform unfortunately.
- mhh__ 6y ago
  Perhaps even more tragically, Both Reagan and Bush were so pro-immigration compared to the modern republican party they'd probably be ridiculed out of the debate hall. https://youtu.be/YsmgPp_nlok https://youtu.be/YsmgPp_nlok
dankboys 6y ago
Surely the rate is 100% since they’ve committed an immigration offence?
- sieabahlpark 6y ago
  Funny what happens when you 'only' ignore that one major federal felony... I'm sure the article isn't lying by omission on anything else.
- andrewshadura 6y ago
  It’s not a crime.
  - tomcam 6y ago
    It is by definition a federal crime
    - andrewshadura 6y ago
      You are mistaken.
      - tomcam 6y ago
        https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1325 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1325
    - DanBC 6y ago
      What's the federal law being broken?
      - _iyig 6y ago
        The Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952 https://www.uscis.gov/laws-and-policy/legislation/immigration-and-nationality-act https://www.uscis.gov/laws-and-policy/legislation/immigratio... Specifically: https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=(title:8%20section:1227%20edition:prelim)%20OR%20(granuleid:USC-prelim-title8-section1227)&f=treesort&num=0&edition=prelim https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=(title:8%20section:1... See language regarding “adjustment of status” and “present in violation of law.” As enforced via: https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid:USC-prelim-title8-section1226&num=0&edition=prelim https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid:USC-prelim...
        DanBC 6y ago
        Right, but which bit of those do you think makes this specifically a crime?
        _iyig 6y ago
        Apologies for pedantry - here is the dictionary definition of "crime": https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/crime https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/crime >1: an illegal act for which someone can be punished by the government And from the Code of Laws of the United States of America, linked previously: >Any alien (including an alien crewman) in and admitted to the United States shall, upon the order of the Attorney General, be removed if the alien is within one or more of the following classes of deportable aliens: >(1) Inadmissible at time of entry or of adjustment of status or violates status [...] To reside in the U.S. illegally is prohibited by law, and the government shall punish you with removal to your country of origin. In other words, residing in the U.S. illegally is a crime. EDIT: Downvotes because I'm mistaken, or because you don't like the U.S. Code? If the above analysis is wrong, please correct it.
- detaro 6y ago
  Purely being in the US illegally after a legal entry is not a crime, so no.
  - dankboys 6y ago
    Overstaying a visa or crossing a border without authorisation is a crime
    - dragonwriter 6y ago
      Overstaying a visa is not a crime. Even if it was, it would still be possible for the probability of commiting a crime (expressed as, say, an annual figure) for the undocumented to be lower than citizens.
      - dankboys 6y ago
        And crossing a border?
Thev00d00 6y ago
If I were somewhere illegally, looking for better circumstances, I would want to keep my head down and maintain a low profile from the authorities, so petty crime seems like a unneeded chance to be exposed. Seems like common sense to me.
- raverbashing 6y ago
  You would also avoid reporting crimes you were the subject to and/or just avoid any interaction with LE
  - _iyig 6y ago
    Despite the downvotes you’ve received, you are correct. The under-reporting of crime among illegal immigrant communities for the reason you identify has been studied and documented: https://www.iza.org/publications/dp/10306/silence-of-the-innocents-illegal-immigrants-underreporting-of-crime-and-their-victimization https://www.iza.org/publications/dp/10306/silence-of-the-inn... Since most victims of violent crime know their attacker [0], this may imply an under-reporting of crime committed by members of the undocumented community as well. [0] https://www.zocalopublicsquare.org/2016/08/06/americans-mostly-kill-ones-know/ideas/nexus/ https://www.zocalopublicsquare.org/2016/08/06/americans-most...
maallooc 6y ago
But by staying they are indeed committing an offense. It's 100%.
TheOperator 6y ago
This data shows undocumented immigrants are less likely to get arrested, saying they're less likely to commit crimes is a speculative inference. If we're being consistent we would have to assume that any group with a high arrest rate must be a group that commits many crimes, which is not something the type of people who use the phrase "undocumented immigrants" are likely to accept as valid. In general being in a country without valid papers gives one a strong incentive to avoid getting arrested.
- 627467 6y ago
  avoiding commiting crimes seems to help avoiding getting arrested.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- Consultant32452 6y ago
  The other flaw is that undocumented immigrants who get caught committing crimes get deported while citizens stay and commit more crimes.
- est31 6y ago
  Also, most crimes are committed against your peers. If the victim is another undocumented immigrant, they are probably less likely to call the police on you in the first place.
  - _iyig 6y ago
    Indeed, this effect has been studied and documented: https://www.iza.org/publications/dp/10306/silence-of-the-innocents-illegal-immigrants-underreporting-of-crime-and-their-victimization https://www.iza.org/publications/dp/10306/silence-of-the-inn... Per the study, crime among an illegal immigrant population fell post-amnesty in repose to increased crime reporting. Conversely, this implies that when members of a community report crime less often as a result of their immigration status - which the study finds to be the case - crime in those communities is higher than it would be otherwise.
627467 6y ago
more https://www.cato.org/blog/illegal-immigrants-crime-assessing-evidence https://www.cato.org/blog/illegal-immigrants-crime-assessing...
_iyig 6y ago
The statement >But at least two independent studies suggest Secure Communities didn’t have any effect on crime rates, according to Light, despite deporting more than 200,000 people in its first four years. >“If the plan was to make communities safer, to reduce the likelihood of, say, a felony violent assault in these communities through deportation, it did not deliver on that promise,” Light says would seem to contradict >“They have a tremendous incentive to avoid criminal wrongdoing. The greatest fear among undocumented immigrants is getting in legal trouble that leads to deportation,” says Light That incentive exists because the law is enforced. If the law were not enforced, the incentive would disappear and crime would increase. QED the Secure Communities program prevents crime. Am I missing something?
- TheOperator 6y ago
  Looking at one of the studies mentioned, the study period was 1990-2014 [1]. Secure communities was piloted in 2008, and by 2011 appearantly still wasn't in effect in most communities [2]. Thus it seems that the low crime rate found in these studies PREDATES the secure communities program. Which would make it a tough on crime program targeting a low crime population, which would make it arbitrary and inefficient. [1] https://news.wisc.edu/study-shows-undocumented-immigration-doesnt-increase-violent-crime/ https://news.wisc.edu/study-shows-undocumented-immigration-d... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Communities#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Communities#History
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
ThinkBeat 6y ago
did anyone find a link to the study and how they processed the data? A couple of points. There is a portion of illegal aliens in the US who do commit within gang and narcotic cartels violence homicide rape is overrepresented I do believe that it is a small minority but a very prolific one. As we can see across the border as well. In fact, a lot of illegal immigrants come to the US due to the level of violence from these groups. Then a lot of illegal aliens are deported instead of jailed. Lastly taking the study as reported in the Linked to Article as fact, I don't think the point it makes sense. If 100 native-born men commit five rape, each and 109 illegal alien men only commit two rapes each that still means 200 rapes extra in addition to those that would happen if the illegal aliens were not in the US. To tell the victim that illegal immigrants commit far less crime will probably not help much. I am a legal immigrant myself. I came from the US. I think the US should make immigration in some form more straightforward to obtain legally. I also think it is the responsibility of the US to accept their for share of desperate refugees that is a direct result of our military interventions as well as our occupations.
MrRiddle 6y ago
Alternatively: Someone hiding from the government due to illegal immigration is less likely to jeopardize their stay by committing crimes. How about the fact all those people are already criminals? How about illegal immigrants are more likely to target other immigrants and go unpunished? How do they even know how many illegal immigrants there are in the US, what number they're feeding into? """ “There’s lots of opportunity to commit crimes in Mexico and Venezuela and other places people are emigrating from,” Light says. “The argument is that many people who want to immigrate are selected on attributes like ambition to achieve, to find economic opportunities, and those types of things aren’t very highly correlated with having a criminal propensity.” """ They are drawing conclusions while I think their findings are highly questionable. It's ultimately just an opinion piece.
- TheOperator 6y ago
  Being an immigrant without legal status is not technically in itself a crime. It's a civil matter not a criminal one. A child smuggled into the United States when they were 2 years old wouldn't be definitionally a criminal.
  - MrRiddle 6y ago
    Sure, there are edge cases. But if someone sneaks in/crosses outside of official border crossing they already committed a greater crime than most people ever will.
jka 6y ago
Here's a direct link to the results section of the study: https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2020/12/01/2014704117#sec-2 https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2020/12/01/2014704117#sec...
SecurityMinded 6y ago
Of course this P-O-S statement is totally disregarding the illegal alien (not friggen undocumented immigrant bullshit) who commits a crime, does it so spectacularly, like killing people, deling drugs and what not. Of course if you compare this to the pick-pocketer US citizens, it will give you the skewed statistic as the a-hole writer of this piece wants you to believe. This Chris Barncard person should burn in hell.

Realistically speaking this changes nothing. The U.S. has long entered a post-truth era. Citing this study will in no way change the mind of whoever you are debating with over immigration reform unfortunately.

mhh__ 6y ago
Perhaps even more tragically, Both Reagan and Bush were so pro-immigration compared to the modern republican party they'd probably be ridiculed out of the debate hall. https://youtu.be/YsmgPp_nlok https://youtu.be/YsmgPp_nlok

dankboys 6y ago

Surely the rate is 100% since they’ve committed an immigration offence?

sieabahlpark 6y ago
Funny what happens when you 'only' ignore that one major federal felony... I'm sure the article isn't lying by omission on anything else.
andrewshadura 6y ago
It’s not a crime.
- tomcam 6y ago
  It is by definition a federal crime
  - andrewshadura 6y ago
    You are mistaken.
    - tomcam 6y ago
      https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1325 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1325
  - DanBC 6y ago
    What's the federal law being broken?
    - _iyig 6y ago
      The Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952 https://www.uscis.gov/laws-and-policy/legislation/immigration-and-nationality-act https://www.uscis.gov/laws-and-policy/legislation/immigratio... Specifically: https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=(title:8%20section:1227%20edition:prelim)%20OR%20(granuleid:USC-prelim-title8-section1227)&f=treesort&num=0&edition=prelim https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=(title:8%20section:1... See language regarding “adjustment of status” and “present in violation of law.” As enforced via: https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid:USC-prelim-title8-section1226&num=0&edition=prelim https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid:USC-prelim...
      - DanBC 6y ago
        Right, but which bit of those do you think makes this specifically a crime?
        _iyig 6y ago
        Apologies for pedantry - here is the dictionary definition of "crime": https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/crime https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/crime >1: an illegal act for which someone can be punished by the government And from the Code of Laws of the United States of America, linked previously: >Any alien (including an alien crewman) in and admitted to the United States shall, upon the order of the Attorney General, be removed if the alien is within one or more of the following classes of deportable aliens: >(1) Inadmissible at time of entry or of adjustment of status or violates status [...] To reside in the U.S. illegally is prohibited by law, and the government shall punish you with removal to your country of origin. In other words, residing in the U.S. illegally is a crime. EDIT: Downvotes because I'm mistaken, or because you don't like the U.S. Code? If the above analysis is wrong, please correct it.
detaro 6y ago
Purely being in the US illegally after a legal entry is not a crime, so no.
- dankboys 6y ago
  Overstaying a visa or crossing a border without authorisation is a crime
  - dragonwriter 6y ago
    Overstaying a visa is not a crime. Even if it was, it would still be possible for the probability of commiting a crime (expressed as, say, an annual figure) for the undocumented to be lower than citizens.
    - dankboys 6y ago
      And crossing a border?

Thev00d00 6y ago

If I were somewhere illegally, looking for better circumstances, I would want to keep my head down and maintain a low profile from the authorities, so petty crime seems like a unneeded chance to be exposed. Seems like common sense to me.

raverbashing 6y ago
You would also avoid reporting crimes you were the subject to and/or just avoid any interaction with LE
- _iyig 6y ago
  Despite the downvotes you’ve received, you are correct. The under-reporting of crime among illegal immigrant communities for the reason you identify has been studied and documented: https://www.iza.org/publications/dp/10306/silence-of-the-innocents-illegal-immigrants-underreporting-of-crime-and-their-victimization https://www.iza.org/publications/dp/10306/silence-of-the-inn... Since most victims of violent crime know their attacker [0], this may imply an under-reporting of crime committed by members of the undocumented community as well. [0] https://www.zocalopublicsquare.org/2016/08/06/americans-mostly-kill-ones-know/ideas/nexus/ https://www.zocalopublicsquare.org/2016/08/06/americans-most...

maallooc 6y ago

But by staying they are indeed committing an offense. It's 100%.

TheOperator 6y ago

This data shows undocumented immigrants are less likely to get arrested, saying they're less likely to commit crimes is a speculative inference. If we're being consistent we would have to assume that any group with a high arrest rate must be a group that commits many crimes, which is not something the type of people who use the phrase "undocumented immigrants" are likely to accept as valid. In general being in a country without valid papers gives one a strong incentive to avoid getting arrested.

627467 6y ago
avoiding commiting crimes seems to help avoiding getting arrested.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
Consultant32452 6y ago
The other flaw is that undocumented immigrants who get caught committing crimes get deported while citizens stay and commit more crimes.
est31 6y ago
Also, most crimes are committed against your peers. If the victim is another undocumented immigrant, they are probably less likely to call the police on you in the first place.
- _iyig 6y ago
  Indeed, this effect has been studied and documented: https://www.iza.org/publications/dp/10306/silence-of-the-innocents-illegal-immigrants-underreporting-of-crime-and-their-victimization https://www.iza.org/publications/dp/10306/silence-of-the-inn... Per the study, crime among an illegal immigrant population fell post-amnesty in repose to increased crime reporting. Conversely, this implies that when members of a community report crime less often as a result of their immigration status - which the study finds to be the case - crime in those communities is higher than it would be otherwise.

627467 6y ago

more https://www.cato.org/blog/illegal-immigrants-crime-assessing-evidence https://www.cato.org/blog/illegal-immigrants-crime-assessing...

_iyig 6y ago

The statement >But at least two independent studies suggest Secure Communities didn’t have any effect on crime rates, according to Light, despite deporting more than 200,000 people in its first four years. >“If the plan was to make communities safer, to reduce the likelihood of, say, a felony violent assault in these communities through deportation, it did not deliver on that promise,” Light says would seem to contradict >“They have a tremendous incentive to avoid criminal wrongdoing. The greatest fear among undocumented immigrants is getting in legal trouble that leads to deportation,” says Light That incentive exists because the law is enforced. If the law were not enforced, the incentive would disappear and crime would increase. QED the Secure Communities program prevents crime. Am I missing something?

TheOperator 6y ago
Looking at one of the studies mentioned, the study period was 1990-2014 [1]. Secure communities was piloted in 2008, and by 2011 appearantly still wasn't in effect in most communities [2]. Thus it seems that the low crime rate found in these studies PREDATES the secure communities program. Which would make it a tough on crime program targeting a low crime population, which would make it arbitrary and inefficient. [1] https://news.wisc.edu/study-shows-undocumented-immigration-doesnt-increase-violent-crime/ https://news.wisc.edu/study-shows-undocumented-immigration-d... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Communities#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Communities#History

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

ThinkBeat 6y ago

did anyone find a link to the study and how they processed the data? A couple of points. There is a portion of illegal aliens in the US who do commit within gang and narcotic cartels violence homicide rape is overrepresented I do believe that it is a small minority but a very prolific one. As we can see across the border as well. In fact, a lot of illegal immigrants come to the US due to the level of violence from these groups. Then a lot of illegal aliens are deported instead of jailed. Lastly taking the study as reported in the Linked to Article as fact, I don't think the point it makes sense. If 100 native-born men commit five rape, each and 109 illegal alien men only commit two rapes each that still means 200 rapes extra in addition to those that would happen if the illegal aliens were not in the US. To tell the victim that illegal immigrants commit far less crime will probably not help much. I am a legal immigrant myself. I came from the US. I think the US should make immigration in some form more straightforward to obtain legally. I also think it is the responsibility of the US to accept their for share of desperate refugees that is a direct result of our military interventions as well as our occupations.

MrRiddle 6y ago

Alternatively: Someone hiding from the government due to illegal immigration is less likely to jeopardize their stay by committing crimes. How about the fact all those people are already criminals? How about illegal immigrants are more likely to target other immigrants and go unpunished? How do they even know how many illegal immigrants there are in the US, what number they're feeding into? """ “There’s lots of opportunity to commit crimes in Mexico and Venezuela and other places people are emigrating from,” Light says. “The argument is that many people who want to immigrate are selected on attributes like ambition to achieve, to find economic opportunities, and those types of things aren’t very highly correlated with having a criminal propensity.” """ They are drawing conclusions while I think their findings are highly questionable. It's ultimately just an opinion piece.

TheOperator 6y ago
Being an immigrant without legal status is not technically in itself a crime. It's a civil matter not a criminal one. A child smuggled into the United States when they were 2 years old wouldn't be definitionally a criminal.
- MrRiddle 6y ago
  Sure, there are edge cases. But if someone sneaks in/crosses outside of official border crossing they already committed a greater crime than most people ever will.

jka 6y ago

Here's a direct link to the results section of the study: https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2020/12/01/2014704117#sec-2 https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2020/12/01/2014704117#sec...

SecurityMinded 6y ago

Of course this P-O-S statement is totally disregarding the illegal alien (not friggen undocumented immigrant bullshit) who commits a crime, does it so spectacularly, like killing people, deling drugs and what not. Of course if you compare this to the pick-pocketer US citizens, it will give you the skewed statistic as the a-hole writer of this piece wants you to believe. This Chris Barncard person should burn in hell.