6 ms·

> I once saw speed cameras as “un-sporting”. With no attack on the parent, this reminds me of the general driving attitude of South Africa where I am from. A c

by jsinai 6y ago

> I once saw speed cameras as “un-sporting”. With no attack on the parent, this reminds me of the general driving attitude of South Africa where I am from. A combination of lack of road enforcement and public mistrust in the police have created an environment where the rule of law on the road, designed to protect lives, is treated merely as suggestions or guidelines, often ignored. It’s extremely common to see drivers speeding from 10 to even 30 km/h above the speed limit, even on urban roads. Sometimes these drivers are so confident in their right (freedom?) that they’ll flash their lights at you from behind if you’re going too slow, even if you are a good citizen driving at the speed limit. And speeding is only one half of it... When I came to Europe for the first time it was amazing to see how almost everyone respects the road rules (I know this isn’t the case everywhere) and it generally makes me feel much safer on the roads. Although it’s still scary as hell cycling in some cities without protected cycle lanes.

toyg 6y ago
Lol, in SA it’s almost funny, because the crappiest the car, the fastest it will rocket through the countryside. Insane speeds, and I’m Italian.
slumdev 6y ago
It's the same way in the United States. 40 km/h above the limit is the norm on our interstate highways. Perhaps only 20 km/h on smaller streets.
- chiph 6y ago
  Depends on the state & locality. Places like Virginia where having a radar detector is illegal (and the police have detector-detectors) and going 20mph over (32kph) or faster than 80mph (128kph)[0], gets you charged with reckless driving which is a criminal offense punishable by time in jail. So only the foolhardy speed there. In next-door North Carolina, going 9mph over (14kph) will only get you insurance points not license points (the state tracks them separately) so many drivers limit themselves to that on the interstates, and sometimes 5mph over (8kph) inside city limits. [0] Highway SH-130 outside Austin Texas has the fastest speed limit in the US at 85mph (136kph). So what is safe & legal there can get you placed in handcuffs in Virginia.
  - sgc 6y ago
    This is part of my problem with speed cameras everywhere. I respect the idea, but speed limits many places are too low given that roads and vehicles have improved significantly and they have not changed much to keep up. I would be all for more appropriate speed limits and better enforcement of speeding - and congesting traffic by failure to yield to faster drivers behind you.
    - desert_boi 6y ago
      While car safety has improved[1], for places where people still walk regularly like NY and Boston, going way over the speed limit is dangerous to people that don't happen to be in cars. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-08-12/why-are-cars-still-so-dangerous-to-pedestrians https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-08-12/why-are-c...
      - sgc 6y ago
        Yes. Any conversation like this can be expanded, because limits are only one tool among many that need to work together, and changes in each location need to be evaluated case by case - where divided roads / freeways would be the primary beneficiaries. But that article indicated the larger problem even in the city was infrastructure design and people exceeding speed limits rather than the limits themselves. In places where we now have a 25 mph speed limit, if modern tech proves able to reduce accidents by 95% because of accident intervention tech / fsd etc in 5-10 years, should we raise the speed limit to 35 even though the accidents would then be more dangerous to pedestrians? Surely the answer in some cases would be yes, and others no. Or since most people drive above 25 anyways right now, should we just increase the limit now and increase enforcement and penalties? These are the types of changes I am proposing, as well as reducing the incentive to speed due to frustrated drivers passing road hogs unsafely, etc by enforcing minimum speeds and requiring courtesy yields as well. Just because you are driving slow does not mean you are not part of the problem.
- flemhans 6y ago
  To be fair, you have low speed limits. And I think SA is a whole other level of breaking laws. Anecdotal: Coming from Northern Europe (Denmark), I found people in NYC, Boston, SF , and LA to drive very well-behaved compared to people back home. I had to take care to stop driving like a European, since it made my fellow American passengers cringe.
  - bradknowles 6y ago
    I lived and worked — and drove — in Belgium for almost eight years. I held my own in France and a Italy, too. When I moved back to the US, it took me a little while to accommodate, but not too long. But to this day, when necessary, I can go back into Belgian mode, and drive like the other crazy-ass Texans here in Austin.

by jsinai 6y ago

toyg 6y ago

Lol, in SA it’s almost funny, because the crappiest the car, the fastest it will rocket through the countryside. Insane speeds, and I’m Italian.

slumdev 6y ago

It's the same way in the United States. 40 km/h above the limit is the norm on our interstate highways. Perhaps only 20 km/h on smaller streets.

chiph 6y ago
Depends on the state & locality. Places like Virginia where having a radar detector is illegal (and the police have detector-detectors) and going 20mph over (32kph) or faster than 80mph (128kph)[0], gets you charged with reckless driving which is a criminal offense punishable by time in jail. So only the foolhardy speed there. In next-door North Carolina, going 9mph over (14kph) will only get you insurance points not license points (the state tracks them separately) so many drivers limit themselves to that on the interstates, and sometimes 5mph over (8kph) inside city limits. [0] Highway SH-130 outside Austin Texas has the fastest speed limit in the US at 85mph (136kph). So what is safe & legal there can get you placed in handcuffs in Virginia.
- sgc 6y ago
  This is part of my problem with speed cameras everywhere. I respect the idea, but speed limits many places are too low given that roads and vehicles have improved significantly and they have not changed much to keep up. I would be all for more appropriate speed limits and better enforcement of speeding - and congesting traffic by failure to yield to faster drivers behind you.
  - desert_boi 6y ago
    While car safety has improved[1], for places where people still walk regularly like NY and Boston, going way over the speed limit is dangerous to people that don't happen to be in cars. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-08-12/why-are-cars-still-so-dangerous-to-pedestrians https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-08-12/why-are-c...
    - sgc 6y ago
      Yes. Any conversation like this can be expanded, because limits are only one tool among many that need to work together, and changes in each location need to be evaluated case by case - where divided roads / freeways would be the primary beneficiaries. But that article indicated the larger problem even in the city was infrastructure design and people exceeding speed limits rather than the limits themselves. In places where we now have a 25 mph speed limit, if modern tech proves able to reduce accidents by 95% because of accident intervention tech / fsd etc in 5-10 years, should we raise the speed limit to 35 even though the accidents would then be more dangerous to pedestrians? Surely the answer in some cases would be yes, and others no. Or since most people drive above 25 anyways right now, should we just increase the limit now and increase enforcement and penalties? These are the types of changes I am proposing, as well as reducing the incentive to speed due to frustrated drivers passing road hogs unsafely, etc by enforcing minimum speeds and requiring courtesy yields as well. Just because you are driving slow does not mean you are not part of the problem.
flemhans 6y ago
To be fair, you have low speed limits. And I think SA is a whole other level of breaking laws. Anecdotal: Coming from Northern Europe (Denmark), I found people in NYC, Boston, SF , and LA to drive very well-behaved compared to people back home. I had to take care to stop driving like a European, since it made my fellow American passengers cringe.
- bradknowles 6y ago
  I lived and worked — and drove — in Belgium for almost eight years. I held my own in France and a Italy, too. When I moved back to the US, it took me a little while to accommodate, but not too long. But to this day, when necessary, I can go back into Belgian mode, and drive like the other crazy-ass Texans here in Austin.