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We do not have average speed cameras in Sweden and I hope we never will. The privacy implications of taking a photograph of everyone, process "who they are" (re

We do not have average speed cameras in Sweden and I hope we never will. The privacy implications of taking a photograph of everyone, process "who they are" (reg plate, generally driven by family member) is horrifying.

iso947 6y ago
You don’t have ring doorbells?
- carlhjerpe 6y ago
  If you're refering to doorbells with a camera facing the outside then no, they're very uncommon. There's very strict rules about how you're legally allowed to point a fixed installation camera in Sweden, you're not allowed to have a fixed installation that'll record anything that isn't your property. Not even the corner of the pavement. All in all, Swedes don't want cameras pointing all over, you have to put up signs if there are cameras and usually you should apply for a permit before installing cameras. Inside your house you're free to record as you like though. https://bit.ly/37dMVx2 https://bit.ly/37dMVx2 <- Translated law regarding cameras.
  - iso947 6y ago
    Similar restrictions in the U.K. with signs. CCTV signs are usually up for commercial companies, but residential wise it isn’t enforced, and from the local Facebook group people seem shocked at the very idea recording te street and posting pictures of troublemakers is illegal. I was disappointed by the number of people with them when I went door knocking for the election last year. The police actually advised me to get one for my grandmother who has been suffering from door to door scammers.
krapp 6y ago
What privacy implications? The government already knows who you are, they processed your vehicle registration and issued that license plate specifically to make your vehicle publicly identifiable. Are you also terrified that just anyone can read your house numbers or the address on your mailbox?
- carlhjerpe 6y ago
  The problem is automated and centralised surveillance. The government can aggregate this data and build movement patterns on all citizens. They might not do it, but they could. And once something to exert power is possible, It'll be done eventually.
  - krapp 6y ago
    Governments arguably have a public safety interest in aggregating traffic data and being able to identify potential criminal suspects by vehicle. Yes, they could abuse that in some nebulous Orwellian future, but data collection and analysis isn't evil in and of itself. Also, this is public data. Anyone sitting behind you in traffic has your license plate number, your employer and anyone you schedule appointments with can predict your behavior to a degree. Your movements were never that private to begin with. If you want to be afraid of someone, be afraid of businesses, and what they can know based on analyzing customer data.
    - carlhjerpe 6y ago
      Governments have their own self interest at heart, second comes everything else. My license plate is indeed public information, should someone follow me around and document evertything I'm doing. I'm fine with that as the amount of resources required to perform this far outweighs any potential gains. When It's automated by computers It's very cheap. I'm no expert in image classification technology, but i imagine a top of the line Xeon could extract license plate information and the parts of the images containing humans (for later cross reference with some other dataset) a couple thousand times a second. Meaning it'll cost close to nothing. Yes, we should be vary of the data everyone is collecting. I remember a friend of mine saying his grandmother was so suprised she always got offers in the mail from ICA (Big grocery store company in Sweden) on the products she purchases. Completely unaware that they're tracking every purchase she makes because of her membership card.
  - lotsofpulp 6y ago
    They already have access to everyone’s movement patterns via mobile networks and mobile devices.
fy20 6y ago
The UK has a separate nationwide network of cameras for that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_number_plate_recognition_in_the_United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_number_plate_recogni...

iso947 6y ago

You don’t have ring doorbells?

carlhjerpe 6y ago
If you're refering to doorbells with a camera facing the outside then no, they're very uncommon. There's very strict rules about how you're legally allowed to point a fixed installation camera in Sweden, you're not allowed to have a fixed installation that'll record anything that isn't your property. Not even the corner of the pavement. All in all, Swedes don't want cameras pointing all over, you have to put up signs if there are cameras and usually you should apply for a permit before installing cameras. Inside your house you're free to record as you like though. https://bit.ly/37dMVx2 https://bit.ly/37dMVx2 <- Translated law regarding cameras.
- iso947 6y ago
  Similar restrictions in the U.K. with signs. CCTV signs are usually up for commercial companies, but residential wise it isn’t enforced, and from the local Facebook group people seem shocked at the very idea recording te street and posting pictures of troublemakers is illegal. I was disappointed by the number of people with them when I went door knocking for the election last year. The police actually advised me to get one for my grandmother who has been suffering from door to door scammers.

krapp 6y ago

What privacy implications? The government already knows who you are, they processed your vehicle registration and issued that license plate specifically to make your vehicle publicly identifiable. Are you also terrified that just anyone can read your house numbers or the address on your mailbox?

carlhjerpe 6y ago
The problem is automated and centralised surveillance. The government can aggregate this data and build movement patterns on all citizens. They might not do it, but they could. And once something to exert power is possible, It'll be done eventually.
- krapp 6y ago
  Governments arguably have a public safety interest in aggregating traffic data and being able to identify potential criminal suspects by vehicle. Yes, they could abuse that in some nebulous Orwellian future, but data collection and analysis isn't evil in and of itself. Also, this is public data. Anyone sitting behind you in traffic has your license plate number, your employer and anyone you schedule appointments with can predict your behavior to a degree. Your movements were never that private to begin with. If you want to be afraid of someone, be afraid of businesses, and what they can know based on analyzing customer data.
  - carlhjerpe 6y ago
    Governments have their own self interest at heart, second comes everything else. My license plate is indeed public information, should someone follow me around and document evertything I'm doing. I'm fine with that as the amount of resources required to perform this far outweighs any potential gains. When It's automated by computers It's very cheap. I'm no expert in image classification technology, but i imagine a top of the line Xeon could extract license plate information and the parts of the images containing humans (for later cross reference with some other dataset) a couple thousand times a second. Meaning it'll cost close to nothing. Yes, we should be vary of the data everyone is collecting. I remember a friend of mine saying his grandmother was so suprised she always got offers in the mail from ICA (Big grocery store company in Sweden) on the products she purchases. Completely unaware that they're tracking every purchase she makes because of her membership card.
- lotsofpulp 6y ago
  They already have access to everyone’s movement patterns via mobile networks and mobile devices.

fy20 6y ago

The UK has a separate nationwide network of cameras for that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_number_plate_recognition_in_the_United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_number_plate_recogni...