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Apart from it having been introduced by W3C as part of heir 1998-2004ish push for renovating the web, I can't see what XHTML and CSS media queries have to do wi

Apart from it having been introduced by W3C as part of heir 1998-2004ish push for renovating the web, I can't see what XHTML and CSS media queries have to do with SemWeb, though. There's no reason to be bitter about the failure of XML/XHTML on the web as the good parts (SVG, MathML to some degree) have been incorporated into HTML5. To the contrary, one could say W3C's fixation on XML (and RDF/sparql) gave rise to WHATWG/Google, and their vision for the appification of the web.

Mikhail_Edoshin 6y ago
XML was designed as a federation of interoperable notations. The notations could co-exist and independently and organically grow and enhance the web in all ways. This is a much broader vision than what HTML turned into.
- tannhaeuser 6y ago
  Fair point, but neither is nor was XML necessary for new vocabularies or vocabulary evolution (since SGML facilitates that already), nor has RDF/sparql anything to do with it. I'd argue that the organizational lock-up W3C has created with the long XML/XHTML meta-syntax detour and unrealistic XHTML extensions such as XForms resulted in HTML not being extended at all, while everything around it (CSS, JS) was made too powerful to cater for HTML's stagnation during that period.
cookiengineer 6y ago
I think that the way HTML5 is used these days is more as a way to build a design, rather than a way to deliver semantic content. When looking at the Alexa top 1000, you'll find not a single semantic website that cares about their markup, most of them not even having an alternative text for images. The Semantic Web also came with the idea of separating content, design and functionality; and came with the idea of having optional JS rather than integrating it to build intermixed components and (ab-?)using it to build a web page. Personally, I think that this is a view on "how to build a website" that a lot of web developers lack these days, because they just clutter their web page full of JSX and don't care about how it looks like - as long as it is a pixelperfect implementation of what they are tasked to implement. Webpack and others just minify it anyways, so nobody cares whether or not their code can be read by humans. The difference to how web development was perceived back then was that a handcrafted website was worth much more, and developers would argue and defend their implementations with things like "but it's validated, and it has print stylesheets!". But anyways, with that experience comes a lot of understanding what the Web used to be: It was a web of craftsmanship, and not a web of advertisement. People were proud of what they built. Personally, I hope that people value my craftsmanship; so my personal websites all have code that I can identify myself with and that I'm proud of. So my portfolio includes a lot of gimmicks for kids, people, and likeminded people that they can explore and be fascinated with. [1] Coming full circle to what I hope the web could be: I think that a mixture of the Semantic aspects and today's Web Apps are necessary, and that this can only be achieved using swarm intelligence mechanisms. A centralized way is always too proprietary to outlive its creator. Combining that with a decentralized approach for training AIs on the labels could be a glimmer of hope that the web isn't lost yet. That's why I started to build Tholian and its Browser [2] [1] https://cookie.engineer https://cookie.engineer [2] https://tholian.network https://tholian.network
- robertoandred 6y ago
  JSX and clean semantic markup are not mutually exclusive.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]

Mikhail_Edoshin 6y ago

XML was designed as a federation of interoperable notations. The notations could co-exist and independently and organically grow and enhance the web in all ways. This is a much broader vision than what HTML turned into.

tannhaeuser 6y ago
Fair point, but neither is nor was XML necessary for new vocabularies or vocabulary evolution (since SGML facilitates that already), nor has RDF/sparql anything to do with it. I'd argue that the organizational lock-up W3C has created with the long XML/XHTML meta-syntax detour and unrealistic XHTML extensions such as XForms resulted in HTML not being extended at all, while everything around it (CSS, JS) was made too powerful to cater for HTML's stagnation during that period.

cookiengineer 6y ago

I think that the way HTML5 is used these days is more as a way to build a design, rather than a way to deliver semantic content. When looking at the Alexa top 1000, you'll find not a single semantic website that cares about their markup, most of them not even having an alternative text for images. The Semantic Web also came with the idea of separating content, design and functionality; and came with the idea of having optional JS rather than integrating it to build intermixed components and (ab-?)using it to build a web page. Personally, I think that this is a view on "how to build a website" that a lot of web developers lack these days, because they just clutter their web page full of JSX and don't care about how it looks like - as long as it is a pixelperfect implementation of what they are tasked to implement. Webpack and others just minify it anyways, so nobody cares whether or not their code can be read by humans. The difference to how web development was perceived back then was that a handcrafted website was worth much more, and developers would argue and defend their implementations with things like "but it's validated, and it has print stylesheets!". But anyways, with that experience comes a lot of understanding what the Web used to be: It was a web of craftsmanship, and not a web of advertisement. People were proud of what they built. Personally, I hope that people value my craftsmanship; so my personal websites all have code that I can identify myself with and that I'm proud of. So my portfolio includes a lot of gimmicks for kids, people, and likeminded people that they can explore and be fascinated with. [1] Coming full circle to what I hope the web could be: I think that a mixture of the Semantic aspects and today's Web Apps are necessary, and that this can only be achieved using swarm intelligence mechanisms. A centralized way is always too proprietary to outlive its creator. Combining that with a decentralized approach for training AIs on the labels could be a glimmer of hope that the web isn't lost yet. That's why I started to build Tholian and its Browser [2] [1] https://cookie.engineer https://cookie.engineer [2] https://tholian.network https://tholian.network

robertoandred 6y ago
JSX and clean semantic markup are not mutually exclusive.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]