4 ms·

If you burn down a city, even if not one person is hurt, I think a high majority of people would consider it violent - if only because property damage is often

If you burn down a city, even if not one person is hurt, I think a high majority of people would consider it violent - if only because property damage is often a signal of malevolent intent.

sudosysgen 6y ago
There is an important distinction between malevolent intent, even malevolence, and violence. In the event that a city was destroyed without physically or psychologically hurting anyone even indirectly, which would mean material restitution, and as long as the intent clearly wasn't to threaten human harm, I don't know that it would be considered violent. Take this scenario, for example. Would hacking a factory to damage some sensors be violent? Of course not. If you think that some cases of property damage are indeed violence, you'd have to find a reason to draw the line, and I'm not sure you can without referring to human harm.
- seibelj 6y ago
  I believe you are making a philosophical argument, but I can't ignore that in reality a city being destroyed - even partially, as we saw in various places with rioters burning down specific areas and looting businesses - doesn't cause any psychological stress. I live in Boston, and rioters lit many fireworks in my neighborhood and in front of my house (all fireworks are illegal in Massachusetts) late into the night, for months. I am familiar and friendly with many people in my community, including my neighbor who is a black woman, and she was very displeased with the actions she was observing and experiencing, especially given she is a front-line medical worker who needed sleep to battle COVID. In summation, the protests and property destruction indeed had psychological effects, even if you want to believe they did not.
  - sudosysgen 6y ago
    Sure, and the argument is that it's violent because and insofar as there (intended) psychological effects. Not insofar as property was destroyed. And even then, trying to equate the discomfort caused by such property destruction and the violence of brutalizing and killing people is completely unjustifiable.

If you burn down a city, even if not one person is hurt, I think a high majority of people would consider it violent - if only because property damage is often a signal of malevolent intent.

sudosysgen 6y ago

There is an important distinction between malevolent intent, even malevolence, and violence. In the event that a city was destroyed without physically or psychologically hurting anyone even indirectly, which would mean material restitution, and as long as the intent clearly wasn't to threaten human harm, I don't know that it would be considered violent. Take this scenario, for example. Would hacking a factory to damage some sensors be violent? Of course not. If you think that some cases of property damage are indeed violence, you'd have to find a reason to draw the line, and I'm not sure you can without referring to human harm.

seibelj 6y ago
I believe you are making a philosophical argument, but I can't ignore that in reality a city being destroyed - even partially, as we saw in various places with rioters burning down specific areas and looting businesses - doesn't cause any psychological stress. I live in Boston, and rioters lit many fireworks in my neighborhood and in front of my house (all fireworks are illegal in Massachusetts) late into the night, for months. I am familiar and friendly with many people in my community, including my neighbor who is a black woman, and she was very displeased with the actions she was observing and experiencing, especially given she is a front-line medical worker who needed sleep to battle COVID. In summation, the protests and property destruction indeed had psychological effects, even if you want to believe they did not.
- sudosysgen 6y ago
  Sure, and the argument is that it's violent because and insofar as there (intended) psychological effects. Not insofar as property was destroyed. And even then, trying to equate the discomfort caused by such property destruction and the violence of brutalizing and killing people is completely unjustifiable.