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Sounds too good to be true – are there no downsides to a solid state battery?

by fastball 6y ago

samfisher83 6y ago
They are very expensive.
- blunte 6y ago
  But most new technology is very expensive at first.
ianai 6y ago
Depends on who’s doing the judgement and toward what end goal. For EVs, SSBs seem pretty optimal. But you can ding them for using lithium (though it’s not as rare as detractors would suggest). If you’re trying to store power generated off peak until peak demand hours flow batteries using different technologies entirely probably make more sense. There are likely to be situations where even artificially generated chemical fuels make more sense than batteries. Then there’s the hydrogen option. Also no ones proven able to massively produce SSBs yet. Etc
nickik 6y ago
There are no downsides 'per se', that is not really the question. The question is more 'what is the upside'. Until these batteries are in mass production, unless Toyota is much, much further along then anybody think, it is questionable if 'traditional' batteries might not just be simply better. 'Traditional' lithium ion is also evolving very fast and is produced in numbers that will be incredibly hard to reach, and thus achieving cost parity will be difficult. What Tesla interceded for example is just a further evolution of li-ion but as you add more silicon to the anode, the performance is not actually that different from lithium metal anode (ie what everybody is working on for solid state). Confusingly pure lithium metal anode does not actually have less volume then a silicon anode that is full of lithium-ions. That is very everybody is going, current batteries have 10% silicon anode, Tesla is likely taking it to 20-30% or more in the next couple years (other working on the same probably). There are already companies selling pure silicon anode products that are on the same kind of timeline as solid state companies. They however generally have the advantage of being usable in a standard battery factory. One of the claims to fame for solid-state is safety. That can be true and probably will be. However there are also developments in the traditional space that might make them just as safe, by introducing new seperators. So its kind of race, between different paths of design and maybe even more importantly on how you can scale the technology. You have some startups QuantumScape (VW invested), SolidPower (Ford, BMW invested) and large companies like Toyota really pushing solid state as the future. You have some startups like Sila Nanotechnology (Daimler invested) and some large companies like Tesla push silicon. One question is, really how much better does your car need to be then a current Tesla 3 or comparable. Practically speaking we are not so far away from where you will likely stop just boosting the specs. So it will generally come down to how cheap can you produce the batteries and how many can you actually produce. This is why my bet is that by 2030 the waste majority of EV and even the EV sold will not be solid state.
- vardump 6y ago
  Thanks for the consistently factual and level headed comments regarding this subject.
  - nickik 6y ago
    Its gone be interesting. Check out the youtube channel, TheLimitingFactor: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIFn7ONIJHyC-lMnb7Fm_jw https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIFn7ONIJHyC-lMnb7Fm_jw He is finishing up a series on Tesla, and he will be doing a series on Solid state after that as well. He also has interviews with people form industry on his channel and his second channel.
otikik 6y ago
They don't exist yet.

Sounds too good to be true – are there no downsides to a solid state battery?

samfisher83 6y ago

They are very expensive.

blunte 6y ago
But most new technology is very expensive at first.

ianai 6y ago

Depends on who’s doing the judgement and toward what end goal. For EVs, SSBs seem pretty optimal. But you can ding them for using lithium (though it’s not as rare as detractors would suggest). If you’re trying to store power generated off peak until peak demand hours flow batteries using different technologies entirely probably make more sense. There are likely to be situations where even artificially generated chemical fuels make more sense than batteries. Then there’s the hydrogen option. Also no ones proven able to massively produce SSBs yet. Etc

nickik 6y ago

There are no downsides 'per se', that is not really the question. The question is more 'what is the upside'. Until these batteries are in mass production, unless Toyota is much, much further along then anybody think, it is questionable if 'traditional' batteries might not just be simply better. 'Traditional' lithium ion is also evolving very fast and is produced in numbers that will be incredibly hard to reach, and thus achieving cost parity will be difficult. What Tesla interceded for example is just a further evolution of li-ion but as you add more silicon to the anode, the performance is not actually that different from lithium metal anode (ie what everybody is working on for solid state). Confusingly pure lithium metal anode does not actually have less volume then a silicon anode that is full of lithium-ions. That is very everybody is going, current batteries have 10% silicon anode, Tesla is likely taking it to 20-30% or more in the next couple years (other working on the same probably). There are already companies selling pure silicon anode products that are on the same kind of timeline as solid state companies. They however generally have the advantage of being usable in a standard battery factory. One of the claims to fame for solid-state is safety. That can be true and probably will be. However there are also developments in the traditional space that might make them just as safe, by introducing new seperators. So its kind of race, between different paths of design and maybe even more importantly on how you can scale the technology. You have some startups QuantumScape (VW invested), SolidPower (Ford, BMW invested) and large companies like Toyota really pushing solid state as the future. You have some startups like Sila Nanotechnology (Daimler invested) and some large companies like Tesla push silicon. One question is, really how much better does your car need to be then a current Tesla 3 or comparable. Practically speaking we are not so far away from where you will likely stop just boosting the specs. So it will generally come down to how cheap can you produce the batteries and how many can you actually produce. This is why my bet is that by 2030 the waste majority of EV and even the EV sold will not be solid state.

vardump 6y ago
Thanks for the consistently factual and level headed comments regarding this subject.
- nickik 6y ago
  Its gone be interesting. Check out the youtube channel, TheLimitingFactor: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIFn7ONIJHyC-lMnb7Fm_jw https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIFn7ONIJHyC-lMnb7Fm_jw He is finishing up a series on Tesla, and he will be doing a series on Solid state after that as well. He also has interviews with people form industry on his channel and his second channel.

otikik 6y ago

They don't exist yet.