7 ms·

Ms. Fan’s legitimate rights have been fully ensured Anyone knows what those are?

by bassman9000 6y ago

kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
They're all enumerated in the Chinese constitution. Nothing more.
- gjsman-1000 6y ago
  The Chinese, in practice, do not give the constitution almost any weight. For example: The constitution promises freedom of religion. It doesn't take much search to find out how patently false this is... Wikipedia: "Though technically the "supreme legal authority" and "fundamental law of the state", the ruling Communist Party of China has a documented history of violating many of the constitution's provisions and censoring calls for greater adherence to it. Furthermore, claims of violations of constitutional rights cannot be used in Chinese courts, and the National People's Congress Constitution and Law Committee, the legislative committee responsible for constitutional review, has never ruled a law or regulation unconstitutional."
  - kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
    It they don't like it, every party member has a right to stand in meetings and press for change.
    - gruez 6y ago
      nice job changing the goalposts from "[Mr Fan's rights are] all enumerated in the Chinese constitution" to "[Mr Fan doesn't have rights, but...] every party member has a right to stand in meetings and press for change."
- outoftheabyss 6y ago
  As democracy is in N.Korea
- Mindless2112 6y ago
  Without separation of powers, even the best constitution is worthless.
- brobinson 6y ago
  The PRC constitution guarantees freedom of speech, press, assembly, religion, etc. (articles 35 and 36), so... uh...
- Nginx487 6y ago
  Chinese (Russian, Venezuelan) constitution does not worth paper it has been printed on. Authoritarian regime has any tools to override any statement of constitution, and face no consequences. Rights are for party bosses, responsibilities for the people.
  - anubidiocane 6y ago
    To be fair there are examples of unconstitutional behaviour also in many democracies, that theoretically should follow higher standards than authoritarian governments. Take for example the Guantanamo bay detection camp In 2005 a judge ruled that A federal judge ruled Monday that some foreign terror suspects held in Cuba can challenge their confinement in U.S. courts and she criticized the Bush administration for holding hundreds of people indefinitely as “enemy combatants,” saying that doing so unconstitutionally violates their right to due process. But no one paid for it and Guantanamo bay is still open, bi-partisan executive orders have been issued over the years to keep the operations running. Obama promised to close it, but didn't (TBF he had the entire Congress against, but in the end he didn't keep on his promise) In January 2018 the Trump administration signed an executive order to keep Guantanamo open indefinitely. As of today there are still 40 people detained awaiting justice.
cwwc 6y ago
translation: none
eloff 6y ago
All the basic human rights and freedoms as defined in the constitution subject to the capricious whims and full discretion of the CCP. In other words: none.
redis_mlc 6y ago
> Ms. Fan’s legitimate rights have been fully ensured If she was able to find a lawyer, and hire that lawyer, and it was not a CCP plant, and if the lawyer won the case, neither of them would be allowed to leave the courtroom. Then the CCP would go after the families of both her and her lawyer, and cancel any pensions and demolish their houses.

Ms. Fan’s legitimate rights have been fully ensured Anyone knows what those are?

kevin_thibedeau 6y ago

They're all enumerated in the Chinese constitution. Nothing more.

gjsman-1000 6y ago
The Chinese, in practice, do not give the constitution almost any weight. For example: The constitution promises freedom of religion. It doesn't take much search to find out how patently false this is... Wikipedia: "Though technically the "supreme legal authority" and "fundamental law of the state", the ruling Communist Party of China has a documented history of violating many of the constitution's provisions and censoring calls for greater adherence to it. Furthermore, claims of violations of constitutional rights cannot be used in Chinese courts, and the National People's Congress Constitution and Law Committee, the legislative committee responsible for constitutional review, has never ruled a law or regulation unconstitutional."
- kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
  It they don't like it, every party member has a right to stand in meetings and press for change.
  - gruez 6y ago
    nice job changing the goalposts from "[Mr Fan's rights are] all enumerated in the Chinese constitution" to "[Mr Fan doesn't have rights, but...] every party member has a right to stand in meetings and press for change."
outoftheabyss 6y ago
As democracy is in N.Korea
Mindless2112 6y ago
Without separation of powers, even the best constitution is worthless.
brobinson 6y ago
The PRC constitution guarantees freedom of speech, press, assembly, religion, etc. (articles 35 and 36), so... uh...
Nginx487 6y ago
Chinese (Russian, Venezuelan) constitution does not worth paper it has been printed on. Authoritarian regime has any tools to override any statement of constitution, and face no consequences. Rights are for party bosses, responsibilities for the people.
- anubidiocane 6y ago
  To be fair there are examples of unconstitutional behaviour also in many democracies, that theoretically should follow higher standards than authoritarian governments. Take for example the Guantanamo bay detection camp In 2005 a judge ruled that A federal judge ruled Monday that some foreign terror suspects held in Cuba can challenge their confinement in U.S. courts and she criticized the Bush administration for holding hundreds of people indefinitely as “enemy combatants,” saying that doing so unconstitutionally violates their right to due process. But no one paid for it and Guantanamo bay is still open, bi-partisan executive orders have been issued over the years to keep the operations running. Obama promised to close it, but didn't (TBF he had the entire Congress against, but in the end he didn't keep on his promise) In January 2018 the Trump administration signed an executive order to keep Guantanamo open indefinitely. As of today there are still 40 people detained awaiting justice.

cwwc 6y ago

translation: none

eloff 6y ago

All the basic human rights and freedoms as defined in the constitution subject to the capricious whims and full discretion of the CCP. In other words: none.

redis_mlc 6y ago

> Ms. Fan’s legitimate rights have been fully ensured If she was able to find a lawyer, and hire that lawyer, and it was not a CCP plant, and if the lawyer won the case, neither of them would be allowed to leave the courtroom. Then the CCP would go after the families of both her and her lawyer, and cancel any pensions and demolish their houses.