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My perception is that one drawback of earnestness is that it often comes off as just being boring. The most earnest people I know are not popular. The most popu

My perception is that one drawback of earnestness is that it often comes off as just being boring. The most earnest people I know are not popular. The most popular people I know are more like twinkle-in-the-eye-kind-of-BS-but-not-pathological-liars. I don't mean to say "grr, why aren't nerds more popular!". I mean more that this specific kind of earnestness seems to preclude the playing of certain conversational games that most people seem to enjoy. Earnestness, for example, is pretty far away from my conception of "playful" or "flirty" or even "fun".

boxed 6y ago
I've met some people like that. But only because they are earnest and also have a boring interest or just one or two interests. Not very common in my experience.
indymike 6y ago
Earnestness is what happens when people "let the guard down" and just be themselves. That's a rare state for a lot of people, who have spent a lifetime trying to be anyone but who they really are.
- ritchiea 6y ago
  Exactly, there’s nothing inherently boring about being earnest. You can be earnest and boring but you could also be earnest with a good sense of humor and an interest in film history or software engineering. I’m not going to go all in on pg’s earnestness essay but it’s a positive trait and if you have genuine interests, there’s a good chance being earnest makes you more interesting when discussing interests because you are less likely to be invested in impressing other people with your interest. If you’re earnest your interests tend to scratch your itches of curiosity. But if you are earnest and uncurious then yes you may be boring.
  - gbh444g 6y ago
    This made me think that there are two type of not-earnestness: "what's in in it for me?" and "what's in it for others?" The first type is what [office] politics is about. The second type is rare and an example of it is when a doctor could tell a patient point-blank that he has 2 months left, but instead strongly recommends to go on a 2 months round-the-world trip and even invents a plausible cause [such trips help so much that savings on meds are multiples of the trip's cost].
- selestify 6y ago
  > That's a rare state for a lot of people, who have spent a lifetime trying to be anyone but who they really are. If you do it enough, who you "really are" is someone who doesn't enjoy letting their guard down. Who's to say that's not your "authentic" self at that point?
  - gbh444g 6y ago
    To that buddhists would answer that there is no self.
alextheparrot 6y ago
Can you expand on the boringness? That conflicts with what I think because I believe that engaging hobbies are that vitality which manifests as “playful” and “fun”. Are you willing to try something new, and if you do, are you willing to learn to do it well enough to enjoy it. Engaging with a hobby tends to involve making it part of me - the hobbies I haven’t committed to actually liking and just performed have always been the ones that get lost in the shuffle of things. Even more so, being so committed to a hobby pushes me to do more heavy lifting when it comes to doing it socially. (Edit) After a bit more thought I decided an example would be good: I love Jorge Luis Borges, so when my book club finally decided to read him I took the time to rate many of the stories, trying to collect an essence of his magical, gaucho, and mystical stories to help focus our discussion. That is what I mean —- to love something so much that effort becomes effortless because you’re bursting at the seems hoping to share. In this way we didn’t just read “Library of Babel”, but some of the little mysteries that show a different touch of his craft.
- jelliclesfarm 6y ago
  Re your example, Borges is one of my fav authors too. Would love to see that list.
  - alextheparrot 6y ago
    The idea was to try to cover some of his range, which isn't trivial given how many styles he can write in. My favorite is the Secret Miracle, though. The idea of finishing your masterpiece in abstract of the fame, recognition, even impact is beautiful. Here’s the ones we read and discussed: Man on Pink Corner The Secret Miracle The lottery of Babylon Three Versions of Judas Deutsches Requiem On Exactitude in Science In Memoriam, JFK The Zahir
- jtanderson 6y ago
  It seems to me that the perception of boringness can come as a result of earnestness being very niche/focused. Your example is a great one! But if anybody who is not a fan or doesn't know Borges, they would probably find a person earnestly passionately about his writing quite boring -- as one can only have the time and mental energy to be truly earnest about so many things. In contrast, GP's example of popular people are likely those who are good at faking that kind of deep interest in many things, tailored to their present company, so that they attract a few people from many different crowds. Of course, this is based on my own experience only; in certain circles I can feel quite loquacious and come off as extroverted -- usually because of an earnestly shared interest -- but in most cases I think I come across as boring or even introverted!
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
ajju 6y ago
As someone who is most likely on the more boring end of the spectrum, I agree with many parts of your comment :) Still, I have learned that being earnest and being fun are not opposites. Sometimes earnest people are spending most of their time focused on work (and if they are good natured, its fun to work with them!). But one can get better at being fun if you value and prioritize having fun with other people for its own sake. I have also found that folks (including me) particularly enjoy friends who are earnest about their work / side projects. I especially enjoy spending time with friends who are earnestly interested in areas I know little about. Their energy and enthusiasm are infectious and talking to them about their area opens these clear windows into new worlds that are otherwise hard to find.
DoreenMichele 6y ago
Earnest but interesting is sometimes a recipe for drama. Nothing worse than being well-meaning, right about something and saying something no one really wants to hear. If you have any sense whatsoever, you intentionally shoot for "boring" while being publicly earnest. Remember: "May you live in interesting times" is a Chinese curse. There's a downside to being interesting.
- andi999 6y ago
  That proverb is wrongfully attributed to the chinese.(me beeing the party pooper here)
  - DoreenMichele 6y ago
    I initially wrote it without the word Chinese and felt like the sentence didn't convey "This is intended to wish you ill." I felt it sounded more like "This is a swear word." Can't win for losing. ;)
- webmaven 6y ago
  > Remember: "May you live in interesting times" is a Chinese curse. There's a downside to being interesting. Another (possibly better) saying to illustrate the downside might be "The nail that sticks out gets hammered."
  - DoreenMichele 6y ago
    Thank you. That's a much better way to say that.
jacobolus 6y ago
> Earnestness, for example, is pretty far away from my conception of "playful" or "flirty" or even "fun". Cliff Stoll is the most earnest person I have talked to in the past year, and also one of the most playful and fun. See e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-k3mVnRlQLU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-k3mVnRlQLU I think you have a non-standard personal definition of “earnest”. As I understand the words, earnestness and playfulness are completely orthogonal/unrelated attributes.
- croissants 6y ago
  As mentioned in another comment here, I Googled the definition of "earnest", and it mentions "sincere and intense conviction". My post focuses on sincerity which (perhaps in an extreme form) seems to require honesty and an aversion to misrepresentation. This kind of aversion would seem to make play and humor harder. Still, the above chain of reasoning is longer and less convincing than I thought it would be.
unabst 6y ago
No. Narcissists are the popular ones because they can't stop hoarding attention, including yours. Someone earnest can have an incredible sense of humor and a sharp intellectual mind. They can be kind, well-meaning, and respectful. And, they'll leave you alone. So you might have to poke them with a stick a couple of times. Social media is populated with narcissists competing for virality on every platform. Highly entertaining, yes. A waste of all of our time including theirs? Probably.

boxed 6y ago

I've met some people like that. But only because they are earnest and also have a boring interest or just one or two interests. Not very common in my experience.

indymike 6y ago

Earnestness is what happens when people "let the guard down" and just be themselves. That's a rare state for a lot of people, who have spent a lifetime trying to be anyone but who they really are.

ritchiea 6y ago
Exactly, there’s nothing inherently boring about being earnest. You can be earnest and boring but you could also be earnest with a good sense of humor and an interest in film history or software engineering. I’m not going to go all in on pg’s earnestness essay but it’s a positive trait and if you have genuine interests, there’s a good chance being earnest makes you more interesting when discussing interests because you are less likely to be invested in impressing other people with your interest. If you’re earnest your interests tend to scratch your itches of curiosity. But if you are earnest and uncurious then yes you may be boring.
- gbh444g 6y ago
  This made me think that there are two type of not-earnestness: "what's in in it for me?" and "what's in it for others?" The first type is what [office] politics is about. The second type is rare and an example of it is when a doctor could tell a patient point-blank that he has 2 months left, but instead strongly recommends to go on a 2 months round-the-world trip and even invents a plausible cause [such trips help so much that savings on meds are multiples of the trip's cost].
selestify 6y ago
> That's a rare state for a lot of people, who have spent a lifetime trying to be anyone but who they really are. If you do it enough, who you "really are" is someone who doesn't enjoy letting their guard down. Who's to say that's not your "authentic" self at that point?
- gbh444g 6y ago
  To that buddhists would answer that there is no self.

alextheparrot 6y ago

Can you expand on the boringness? That conflicts with what I think because I believe that engaging hobbies are that vitality which manifests as “playful” and “fun”. Are you willing to try something new, and if you do, are you willing to learn to do it well enough to enjoy it. Engaging with a hobby tends to involve making it part of me - the hobbies I haven’t committed to actually liking and just performed have always been the ones that get lost in the shuffle of things. Even more so, being so committed to a hobby pushes me to do more heavy lifting when it comes to doing it socially. (Edit) After a bit more thought I decided an example would be good: I love Jorge Luis Borges, so when my book club finally decided to read him I took the time to rate many of the stories, trying to collect an essence of his magical, gaucho, and mystical stories to help focus our discussion. That is what I mean —- to love something so much that effort becomes effortless because you’re bursting at the seems hoping to share. In this way we didn’t just read “Library of Babel”, but some of the little mysteries that show a different touch of his craft.

jelliclesfarm 6y ago
Re your example, Borges is one of my fav authors too. Would love to see that list.
- alextheparrot 6y ago
  The idea was to try to cover some of his range, which isn't trivial given how many styles he can write in. My favorite is the Secret Miracle, though. The idea of finishing your masterpiece in abstract of the fame, recognition, even impact is beautiful. Here’s the ones we read and discussed: Man on Pink Corner The Secret Miracle The lottery of Babylon Three Versions of Judas Deutsches Requiem On Exactitude in Science In Memoriam, JFK The Zahir
jtanderson 6y ago
It seems to me that the perception of boringness can come as a result of earnestness being very niche/focused. Your example is a great one! But if anybody who is not a fan or doesn't know Borges, they would probably find a person earnestly passionately about his writing quite boring -- as one can only have the time and mental energy to be truly earnest about so many things. In contrast, GP's example of popular people are likely those who are good at faking that kind of deep interest in many things, tailored to their present company, so that they attract a few people from many different crowds. Of course, this is based on my own experience only; in certain circles I can feel quite loquacious and come off as extroverted -- usually because of an earnestly shared interest -- but in most cases I think I come across as boring or even introverted!

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

ajju 6y ago

As someone who is most likely on the more boring end of the spectrum, I agree with many parts of your comment :) Still, I have learned that being earnest and being fun are not opposites. Sometimes earnest people are spending most of their time focused on work (and if they are good natured, its fun to work with them!). But one can get better at being fun if you value and prioritize having fun with other people for its own sake. I have also found that folks (including me) particularly enjoy friends who are earnest about their work / side projects. I especially enjoy spending time with friends who are earnestly interested in areas I know little about. Their energy and enthusiasm are infectious and talking to them about their area opens these clear windows into new worlds that are otherwise hard to find.

DoreenMichele 6y ago

Earnest but interesting is sometimes a recipe for drama. Nothing worse than being well-meaning, right about something and saying something no one really wants to hear. If you have any sense whatsoever, you intentionally shoot for "boring" while being publicly earnest. Remember: "May you live in interesting times" is a Chinese curse. There's a downside to being interesting.

andi999 6y ago
That proverb is wrongfully attributed to the chinese.(me beeing the party pooper here)
- DoreenMichele 6y ago
  I initially wrote it without the word Chinese and felt like the sentence didn't convey "This is intended to wish you ill." I felt it sounded more like "This is a swear word." Can't win for losing. ;)
webmaven 6y ago
> Remember: "May you live in interesting times" is a Chinese curse. There's a downside to being interesting. Another (possibly better) saying to illustrate the downside might be "The nail that sticks out gets hammered."
- DoreenMichele 6y ago
  Thank you. That's a much better way to say that.

jacobolus 6y ago

> Earnestness, for example, is pretty far away from my conception of "playful" or "flirty" or even "fun". Cliff Stoll is the most earnest person I have talked to in the past year, and also one of the most playful and fun. See e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-k3mVnRlQLU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-k3mVnRlQLU I think you have a non-standard personal definition of “earnest”. As I understand the words, earnestness and playfulness are completely orthogonal/unrelated attributes.

croissants 6y ago
As mentioned in another comment here, I Googled the definition of "earnest", and it mentions "sincere and intense conviction". My post focuses on sincerity which (perhaps in an extreme form) seems to require honesty and an aversion to misrepresentation. This kind of aversion would seem to make play and humor harder. Still, the above chain of reasoning is longer and less convincing than I thought it would be.

unabst 6y ago

No. Narcissists are the popular ones because they can't stop hoarding attention, including yours. Someone earnest can have an incredible sense of humor and a sharp intellectual mind. They can be kind, well-meaning, and respectful. And, they'll leave you alone. So you might have to poke them with a stick a couple of times. Social media is populated with narcissists competing for virality on every platform. Highly entertaining, yes. A waste of all of our time including theirs? Probably.