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> It's a bigger social error to seem naive in most European countries than it is in America, and this may be one of subtler reasons startups are less commmon th

> It's a bigger social error to seem naive in most European countries than it is in America, and this may be one of subtler reasons startups are less commmon there. Founder culture is completely at odds with sophisticated cynicism. I have a high opinion of pg, but mocking an entire continent for non-earnestness because it doesn't make as much money as the US (because they have more startups because, supposedly, the Americans are less cynical than the Europeans) is borderline cynic (and I say that as a cynic myself). Money, and judging almost everything through the prism of money, is one of the most cynical things we do have right now in our society, and as such I appreciate more a "Greed is good discourse" because it shows its cynicism in plain view and does not try to hide it behind a veil of good intentions, like texts as this one do.

boxed 6y ago
Comparing the US to Sweden it seems to other way around to me. Americans assume that all of government and all companies are evil. If that isn't absolute cynicism I don't know what is. (Plus it enables evil since it is expected so there is little anger.) Plus the whole thing with Americans being hopelessly naive against religion, the one area they should absolutely be cynical and/or uninterested like Swedes.
jasode 6y ago
>non-earnestness because it doesn't make as much money as the US (because they have more startups [...] , and judging almost everything through the prism of money, You're interpreting the blog essay unfairly. PG isn't looking at everything (such as "earnestness") only through the prism of money. It's a blog post with deliberately limited scope. His first sentence sets the context for the rest of the essay: "Jessica and I have certain words that have special significance when we're talking about _startups_." Yes, we all know there can be other activities to also express earnestness such as creating art paintings, music, parenting, volunteering, teaching, etc. but he omits those and discusses it in relation to startups because... startups is what he often specializes in writing about. It doesn't look like mocking Europe to me. I understand you want a more universal essay (measures of earnestness beyond startups) but that's not necessary for PG's blog audience.
darkerside 6y ago
I hear what you're saying and there might be some truth to it. I didn't read that "sophisticated cynicism" as very mocking. You could even say he's calling them cooler than us, in a very earnest kind of a way.
- BlueTemplar 6y ago
  Well, except that it flies in the face of American culture being considered "the coolest" in the world. Heck, the modern meaning even comes from (African) Americans ! https://slate.com/human-interest/2013/10/cool-the-etymology-and-history-of-the-concept-of-coolness.html https://slate.com/human-interest/2013/10/cool-the-etymology-...
  - darkerside 6y ago
    Just because we invented doesn't mean we have the monopoly. Many American inventions have been perfected overseas. Besides, I would not put that opinion on him. pg isn't what I'd call a mainstream thinker.
voidhorse 6y ago
Yes, you’re seeing two very different value systems run up against each other. Paul Graham obviously has a bias toward thinking the “founder culture” value system is better...but this stance ignores the fact that the European, more traditional culture leads to greater balance —stricter/better regulations around tech and privacy, ownership, and in most places labor. In America you can make pretty much anything happen but at the cost of living in a society which is lax in terms of regulation, the consequences of which we’re seeing quite palpably this year (workplace discrimination, horrible environmental damage, etc.). While I won’t knock anyone for admitting they don’t know something, not every ignorant person looks for answers once those answers directly go against their agenda. This is what snobbishness, to a certain extent, helps regulate.
- sjg007 6y ago
  It’s seems weird because the UK and Europe had the original founders! I guess the Vikings might have been the first but they typically plundered as an enterprise. Focusing on character traits as a societal descriptor kind of comes off like saying that the French don’t have a word for entrepreneur! So I imagine reality is different than these tropes. But it is interesting to ask why does Scandinavia have more startups per capita than other countries? Like structural racism are there structural components that drive startups?
cambalache 6y ago
Not only that , in many parts of the world (LATAM for example) American institutions are not considered earnest at all, you know they all have underhanded motives.

boxed 6y ago

Comparing the US to Sweden it seems to other way around to me. Americans assume that all of government and all companies are evil. If that isn't absolute cynicism I don't know what is. (Plus it enables evil since it is expected so there is little anger.) Plus the whole thing with Americans being hopelessly naive against religion, the one area they should absolutely be cynical and/or uninterested like Swedes.

jasode 6y ago

>non-earnestness because it doesn't make as much money as the US (because they have more startups [...] , and judging almost everything through the prism of money, You're interpreting the blog essay unfairly. PG isn't looking at everything (such as "earnestness") only through the prism of money. It's a blog post with deliberately limited scope. His first sentence sets the context for the rest of the essay: "Jessica and I have certain words that have special significance when we're talking about _startups_." Yes, we all know there can be other activities to also express earnestness such as creating art paintings, music, parenting, volunteering, teaching, etc. but he omits those and discusses it in relation to startups because... startups is what he often specializes in writing about. It doesn't look like mocking Europe to me. I understand you want a more universal essay (measures of earnestness beyond startups) but that's not necessary for PG's blog audience.

darkerside 6y ago

I hear what you're saying and there might be some truth to it. I didn't read that "sophisticated cynicism" as very mocking. You could even say he's calling them cooler than us, in a very earnest kind of a way.

BlueTemplar 6y ago
Well, except that it flies in the face of American culture being considered "the coolest" in the world. Heck, the modern meaning even comes from (African) Americans ! https://slate.com/human-interest/2013/10/cool-the-etymology-and-history-of-the-concept-of-coolness.html https://slate.com/human-interest/2013/10/cool-the-etymology-...
- darkerside 6y ago
  Just because we invented doesn't mean we have the monopoly. Many American inventions have been perfected overseas. Besides, I would not put that opinion on him. pg isn't what I'd call a mainstream thinker.

voidhorse 6y ago

Yes, you’re seeing two very different value systems run up against each other. Paul Graham obviously has a bias toward thinking the “founder culture” value system is better...but this stance ignores the fact that the European, more traditional culture leads to greater balance —stricter/better regulations around tech and privacy, ownership, and in most places labor. In America you can make pretty much anything happen but at the cost of living in a society which is lax in terms of regulation, the consequences of which we’re seeing quite palpably this year (workplace discrimination, horrible environmental damage, etc.). While I won’t knock anyone for admitting they don’t know something, not every ignorant person looks for answers once those answers directly go against their agenda. This is what snobbishness, to a certain extent, helps regulate.

sjg007 6y ago
It’s seems weird because the UK and Europe had the original founders! I guess the Vikings might have been the first but they typically plundered as an enterprise. Focusing on character traits as a societal descriptor kind of comes off like saying that the French don’t have a word for entrepreneur! So I imagine reality is different than these tropes. But it is interesting to ask why does Scandinavia have more startups per capita than other countries? Like structural racism are there structural components that drive startups?

cambalache 6y ago

Not only that , in many parts of the world (LATAM for example) American institutions are not considered earnest at all, you know they all have underhanded motives.