6 ms·

The team behind Preact also recently released WMR [0] which attempts to simplify the process of actually building a web app. We're thinking of trying it out to

by kevsim 6y ago

The team behind Preact also recently released WMR [0] which attempts to simplify the process of actually building a web app. We're thinking of trying it out to replace the current mess we have with create-react-app, webpack, etc. 0: http://github.com/preactjs/wmr http://github.com/preactjs/wmr

jokull 6y ago
I found frontend tranquility in Snowpack and snowpack-rollup for production builds.
- kevsim 6y ago
  Any gotchas? When I read about Snowpack, I always get a too-good-to-be-true feeling. Maybe I'm just jaded by years of grunt, webpack, parcel, etc.
  - dmitriid 6y ago
    For starting from scratch it mist likely does wonders. Don't try converting a large legacy-ish codebase :)
  - pea 6y ago
    We love parceljs, too. Check it out.
    - danmur 6y ago
      I like parceljs too. I haven't used it on big projects (plus I'm not a web dev currently) but I found it to be more "config when you need to change the defaults" than "no config". But that's great. It works out of the box for a lot of stuff and you add some dotfiles when you want to customise. I do want to try snowpack too though.
  - hashkb 6y ago
    Snowpack got really really slow after I added a few dependencies. Also, it can't reuse its cache between a docker container and my laptop... I was hoping the cache would be portable but it's not. It needed more restarts than webpack. And you give away your freedom to tinker.
  - SCLeo 6y ago
    May I ask what is the problem with parcel? I can't remember I have ever run into problems with parcel. Maybe it's because, unlike when using webpack, I never try to perform "dark arts" when using parcel.
    - pull_my_finger 6y ago
      I had previously run into the issue of Parcel watching `node_modules` for file changes and inevitably having issues related to that. There are a few issues on GH related to that, to which the devs basically said "that's a feature, not a bug". It's been a while since I used Parcel though, Idk if that's still and issue.
emilsedgh 6y ago
Webpack has some serious positive side effects: 1-2 times a year when I go to update our app's Webpack, in a matter of 3-4 days I: 1. Get up to date on all recent developments in the world of javascript, babel, esbuild, typescript, eslint, webpack, jest and all their plugins 2. Get the chance to browse through hundreds of fresh github issues while they are still open! 3. Open a few new pull requests 4. Find out about tens of of plugins that are not being developed anymore and their new replacements which are almost the same only with a new name and slightly different API! 5. Give my laptop and build server's CPU's a good go 6. Call my therapist It's a wonderful opportunity to keep life on edge.
- 4778468d 6y ago
  Ooohhh snarky.... !
- IgorPartola 6y ago
  This is too real. I don’t use webpack directly, only the way vue-cli bundles it, but still it’s a sort of blessing and curse. It is also dog slow for what it’s doing: even something like make can cache compilation objects and make sure that for example Bootstrap’s SCSS doesn’t need to be recompiled every time I update the background color of my app in my own stylesheet. And while speed measuring plugins exist, I am still at a loss at how to optimize a build of a simple SPA where my code all in is less than 10KB and yet it takes like 30 seconds to produce a build. And as you say, when a bug hits, good luck figuring that out.
  - emilsedgh 6y ago
    Try esbuild instead of babel. Really helps. There is an esbuild-loader that can replace babel neatly.
- tarsinge 6y ago
  On the bright side it’s still possible to make a living shipping professional code with simple script dev tags, for now.
- brian_herman 6y ago
matthewhartmans 6y ago
It's a joke isn't it?! We spend hours maintaining that stuff and it gives the customer 0 value. :explodinghead: But on the flip-side, we get paid! :D
- chiefalchemist 6y ago
  Customer? How about the users? The tools keep getting "better and better" and yet time and again I'm on sites - big major sites - that trigger a "No way! WTF is _that_?!??" Mind you that's not necessarily a direct result of the tools or those using the tools. On the other hand, resources are finite. Any time used for X (e.g., wresting with Webpack) "comes out of the budget" for Y (e.g., bug fixes) or Z (e.g., a UX designer). Clients/customers care about their users/end-customers. And users/end-customers don't give a toss about Webpack or anything else. They care about themselves. Full stop.
  - 411111111111111 6y ago
    The tools get better, enabling even more complex applications which occasionally have bugs and unintended features. This is just in the nature of progress. If any product owner was fine with a simple static website which only displays some text, I'm sure there wouldn't be any noticeable bugs in it.
    - coddle-hark 6y ago
      I think it’s a general truth that all software projects tend to end up at the maximum possible complexity. Projects that aren’t inherently complex tend to achieve this by complicated tooling, deploys, and a slew of “special cases” that inevitably slow things down. It’s a special case of Parkinson’s law (work expands so as to fill the time available for its completion); all these developers need to spend their time on something after all, no-one’s going to code them self out of a job.
MuffinFlavored 6y ago
Is a goal of `wmr` to ever support translating `exports.foo = bar` / `module.exports.foo = bar` + `require()` to `import/export` so that modules that work with `node.js` can work in the browser too?
- developit 6y ago
  It already does this. Only for .cjs files and things in node_modules.

by kevsim 6y ago

jokull 6y ago

I found frontend tranquility in Snowpack and snowpack-rollup for production builds.

kevsim 6y ago
Any gotchas? When I read about Snowpack, I always get a too-good-to-be-true feeling. Maybe I'm just jaded by years of grunt, webpack, parcel, etc.
- dmitriid 6y ago
  For starting from scratch it mist likely does wonders. Don't try converting a large legacy-ish codebase :)
- pea 6y ago
  We love parceljs, too. Check it out.
  - danmur 6y ago
    I like parceljs too. I haven't used it on big projects (plus I'm not a web dev currently) but I found it to be more "config when you need to change the defaults" than "no config". But that's great. It works out of the box for a lot of stuff and you add some dotfiles when you want to customise. I do want to try snowpack too though.
- hashkb 6y ago
  Snowpack got really really slow after I added a few dependencies. Also, it can't reuse its cache between a docker container and my laptop... I was hoping the cache would be portable but it's not. It needed more restarts than webpack. And you give away your freedom to tinker.
- SCLeo 6y ago
  May I ask what is the problem with parcel? I can't remember I have ever run into problems with parcel. Maybe it's because, unlike when using webpack, I never try to perform "dark arts" when using parcel.
  - pull_my_finger 6y ago
    I had previously run into the issue of Parcel watching `node_modules` for file changes and inevitably having issues related to that. There are a few issues on GH related to that, to which the devs basically said "that's a feature, not a bug". It's been a while since I used Parcel though, Idk if that's still and issue.

emilsedgh 6y ago

Webpack has some serious positive side effects: 1-2 times a year when I go to update our app's Webpack, in a matter of 3-4 days I: 1. Get up to date on all recent developments in the world of javascript, babel, esbuild, typescript, eslint, webpack, jest and all their plugins 2. Get the chance to browse through hundreds of fresh github issues while they are still open! 3. Open a few new pull requests 4. Find out about tens of of plugins that are not being developed anymore and their new replacements which are almost the same only with a new name and slightly different API! 5. Give my laptop and build server's CPU's a good go 6. Call my therapist It's a wonderful opportunity to keep life on edge.

4778468d 6y ago
Ooohhh snarky.... !
IgorPartola 6y ago
This is too real. I don’t use webpack directly, only the way vue-cli bundles it, but still it’s a sort of blessing and curse. It is also dog slow for what it’s doing: even something like make can cache compilation objects and make sure that for example Bootstrap’s SCSS doesn’t need to be recompiled every time I update the background color of my app in my own stylesheet. And while speed measuring plugins exist, I am still at a loss at how to optimize a build of a simple SPA where my code all in is less than 10KB and yet it takes like 30 seconds to produce a build. And as you say, when a bug hits, good luck figuring that out.
- emilsedgh 6y ago
  Try esbuild instead of babel. Really helps. There is an esbuild-loader that can replace babel neatly.
tarsinge 6y ago
On the bright side it’s still possible to make a living shipping professional code with simple script dev tags, for now.
brian_herman 6y ago

matthewhartmans 6y ago

It's a joke isn't it?! We spend hours maintaining that stuff and it gives the customer 0 value. :explodinghead: But on the flip-side, we get paid! :D

chiefalchemist 6y ago
Customer? How about the users? The tools keep getting "better and better" and yet time and again I'm on sites - big major sites - that trigger a "No way! WTF is _that_?!??" Mind you that's not necessarily a direct result of the tools or those using the tools. On the other hand, resources are finite. Any time used for X (e.g., wresting with Webpack) "comes out of the budget" for Y (e.g., bug fixes) or Z (e.g., a UX designer). Clients/customers care about their users/end-customers. And users/end-customers don't give a toss about Webpack or anything else. They care about themselves. Full stop.
- 411111111111111 6y ago
  The tools get better, enabling even more complex applications which occasionally have bugs and unintended features. This is just in the nature of progress. If any product owner was fine with a simple static website which only displays some text, I'm sure there wouldn't be any noticeable bugs in it.
  - coddle-hark 6y ago
    I think it’s a general truth that all software projects tend to end up at the maximum possible complexity. Projects that aren’t inherently complex tend to achieve this by complicated tooling, deploys, and a slew of “special cases” that inevitably slow things down. It’s a special case of Parkinson’s law (work expands so as to fill the time available for its completion); all these developers need to spend their time on something after all, no-one’s going to code them self out of a job.

MuffinFlavored 6y ago

Is a goal of `wmr` to ever support translating `exports.foo = bar` / `module.exports.foo = bar` + `require()` to `import/export` so that modules that work with `node.js` can work in the browser too?

developit 6y ago
It already does this. Only for .cjs files and things in node_modules.