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From what I understand the problem with IPv6 isn't technical problems it is with legacy. According to what I know in Africa and Asia they have mostly already be

by hpoe 6y ago

From what I understand the problem with IPv6 isn't technical problems it is with legacy. According to what I know in Africa and Asia they have mostly already been running on IPv6 the problem is just basically a bunch of lazy network admins in NA and the EU that don't want to learn the new tech and organizations that don't want to switch.

fakedang 6y ago
This. Ipv6 addresses are very common in Asia and Africa, but I always find ipv4 remnants in Europe.
klodolph 6y ago
Well, yes, legacy. But, > …a bunch of lazy network admins in NA and the EU that don't want to learn the new tech… That’s a cheap shot, and it’s not called for. Network admins are paid to make the networks run. Anything else is less important. If your IPv6 network experiences some small problems, well, you’re going to hold on to IPv4 because small network problems can mean big inefficiencies or lost sales. Just a few weeks ago I was on the phone with my WiFi router’s vendor for a couple hours or more because IPv6 traffic wasn’t working through it. I had narrowed the problem down to the router itself. It’s not necessarily that IPv6 is poorly tested or has technical problems, it’s that there’s a long tail of devices/configurations/software out there which screw it up, and it’s often cheaper to just use IPv4 rather than suffer even the minor inconveniences and troubleshooting sessions necessary to run IPv6. It’s moving forward but it’s slow progress, and it’s not because network admins are lazy or stupid. It’s because there’s a lot of work to be done and not everyone has much of an incentive to do it at all.
- spicyramen 6y ago
  Agree. Moving IP addresses to IpV6 at any organization required huge planning and is normally not a business or competitive advantage. (In most cases)
- velvetz 6y ago
  Definitely. At our company our network provider decided that it's better for us to use ipv6 from now on. For one day the customer support couldn't figure out what was wrong with our network. They even suggested that the recent heavy rain might have damaged the lines. Finally after a few struggles they mentioned in one sentence that they switched our region to ipv6 only, and that was when we, the customer, realized what's wrong. And obviously, we have a business plan. So that was one day of work without any internet.
  - jacobwilliamroy 6y ago
    One can really clean house if they understand networking well and pay close attention to what the WAN is doing. On the flip side, one can easily be ruined if the WAN is not considered during infrastructure planning.
- mrweasel 6y ago
  Yeah, it's not the network admins, they want IPv6 too. If at all possible our network admins want IPv6 only networks, the sad fact is that it's not possible in most cases. We had to return stacks of Cisco equipment, because despite being brand new it had no IPv6 support. We should have checked of cause, but we just didn't imagine that you could buy IPv4 only equipment in 2020. Software is even worse, we have had software that advertised IPv6 support, so we build an IPv6 only solution, only to find out that the manufacturer has NEVER had a customer using their software on IPv6. They tested it six years ago and never followed up, meaning that IPv6 does actually work in the latest versions. Docker is another example, who in their right mind designed Docker to be a IPv4 only solution and then attempts to bolt on IPv6 later. It should have been IPv6 and then if you really needed it you could add an IPv4 ingress. Most of the issues we have experience using Docker could have been avoided by using IPv6 and dropping IPv4 all together.
  - magicalhippo 6y ago
    > Software is even worse Indeed. Even stuff like pfSense has only rudimentary IPv6 support. And I guess software support is poor because they're still figuring out how to actually deploy IPv6, churning out new RFC's[1]. [1]: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-gont-v6ops-ipv6-addressing-considerations-00 https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-gont-v6ops-ipv6-addressing... (random example)
  - iam-TJ 6y ago
    What is even more incredible in 2020 is that docker.com and hub.docker.com do not host on IPv6 .... and they're on AWS. We discovered this due to operating an IPv6-only network and having to deploy NAT64/DNS64* on the edge specifically for reaching hub.docker.com * NAT64/DNS64 was trivial to set up (Tayga + bind9) - took 2 hours for a networking apprentice
CKN23-ARIN 6y ago
Some carriers are engaging in IPv6-only peering spats, which is also harming adoption. Cogent, recipient (and rejector) of the famous Peering Cake[1], has no IPv6 routes to Google or Hurricane Electric, for example. [1] https://www.datacenterknowledge.com/sites/datacenterknowledge.com/files/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/Hurricane-Cake.jpg https://www.datacenterknowledge.com/sites/datacenterknowledg...
mike_d 6y ago
> a bunch of lazy network admins in NA and the EU that don't want to learn the new tech Google is seeing 43% IPv6 traffic in the US, 50% in Germany, 35% in Japan, and 17% in Gabon (the most of any African country). The data seems to support the exact opposite of your assessment.
- jiggawatts 6y ago
  Don't confuse long-range www traffic with the total number of endpoints. Serving a single page might take dozens or even hundreds of interacting services. Not one of our enterprise customers has IPv6 enabled. Not one of the public clouds we manage have IPv6 addresses on their virtual networks. Meanwhile, putting a CDN in front of an otherwise 100% IPv4 web server will add an IPv6 address whether you like it or not, and that traffic will contribute to those stats you mentioned. This article is about public cloud providers hoarding IPv4, which applies to things like the PaaS and SaaS services, internal APIs, etc... which are nearly 100% IPv4 in all three of the big public cloud providers.
kortilla 6y ago
It has nothing to do with network admins. Everything the majority of customers care about in the US is available on IPv4 and sometimes ipv6. If v6 goes down for your customers, they probably won’t even notice. If you don’t have v4, you don’t have a business. It hasn’t even been that long that Amazon EC2 has had v6 support, which is where a huge chunk of the Internet is hosted. The network admins at ISPs are just providing connectivity the customers demand. It’s hosting providers and sys admins that don’t bother setting up anything interesting on v6 in the first place.
- jiggawatts 6y ago
  First: Here in Australia no major ISPs provide a native IPv6 service, and if they do, they don't provide it to business. It's obscenely difficult to obtain IPv6 in Australia. None of the major telcos do it, you have to go down the list to like the 5th or 6th biggest ones before it becomes an "experimental option" for residential connections only. Second: Ever since IPv6 has been a thing, I've offered to customers the option to turn it on for free. No added charge. We'll just flip the switches and it's there. Not one customer, ever, has said "yes". They've all actively refused to turn it on, for any purpose. Third: The few times IPv6 has been forced upon our customers, mostly due to Microsoft Windows DirectAccess, it was the network administrators frothing at the mouth, ranting and raving about how they don't want to do it, that DirectAccess should use IPv4 (I'll call Redmond and I'm sure they'll get right on it!), etc... Fourth: As you've mentioned, AWS, Azure, and GCP had practically zero IPv6 support until very recently. Now, they have broken IPv6 support which is worse than useless, because it gives the impression that the problem is with IPv6, not with the people holding on to an appreciating asset of IPv4 addresses that they intend to use to lock out the competition. TL;DR: IPv6 is held back by a combination of bad ISPs, lazy network admins, and monopoly seeking public cloud providers.
  - BlueTemplar 6y ago
    At some point the government just has to step in and forbid the sale of IPv4 compatible hardware...
  - rescbr 6y ago
jsz0 6y ago
Running a dual stack IPv4/IPv6 network at minimum doubles the amount of work network engineers need to do on a daily basis. Consider something as simple as a ping monitor to determine if a device is up or down now has to test for both IPv4 and IPv6 reachability.

by hpoe 6y ago

fakedang 6y ago

This. Ipv6 addresses are very common in Asia and Africa, but I always find ipv4 remnants in Europe.

klodolph 6y ago

Well, yes, legacy. But, > …a bunch of lazy network admins in NA and the EU that don't want to learn the new tech… That’s a cheap shot, and it’s not called for. Network admins are paid to make the networks run. Anything else is less important. If your IPv6 network experiences some small problems, well, you’re going to hold on to IPv4 because small network problems can mean big inefficiencies or lost sales. Just a few weeks ago I was on the phone with my WiFi router’s vendor for a couple hours or more because IPv6 traffic wasn’t working through it. I had narrowed the problem down to the router itself. It’s not necessarily that IPv6 is poorly tested or has technical problems, it’s that there’s a long tail of devices/configurations/software out there which screw it up, and it’s often cheaper to just use IPv4 rather than suffer even the minor inconveniences and troubleshooting sessions necessary to run IPv6. It’s moving forward but it’s slow progress, and it’s not because network admins are lazy or stupid. It’s because there’s a lot of work to be done and not everyone has much of an incentive to do it at all.

spicyramen 6y ago
Agree. Moving IP addresses to IpV6 at any organization required huge planning and is normally not a business or competitive advantage. (In most cases)
velvetz 6y ago
Definitely. At our company our network provider decided that it's better for us to use ipv6 from now on. For one day the customer support couldn't figure out what was wrong with our network. They even suggested that the recent heavy rain might have damaged the lines. Finally after a few struggles they mentioned in one sentence that they switched our region to ipv6 only, and that was when we, the customer, realized what's wrong. And obviously, we have a business plan. So that was one day of work without any internet.
- jacobwilliamroy 6y ago
  One can really clean house if they understand networking well and pay close attention to what the WAN is doing. On the flip side, one can easily be ruined if the WAN is not considered during infrastructure planning.
mrweasel 6y ago
Yeah, it's not the network admins, they want IPv6 too. If at all possible our network admins want IPv6 only networks, the sad fact is that it's not possible in most cases. We had to return stacks of Cisco equipment, because despite being brand new it had no IPv6 support. We should have checked of cause, but we just didn't imagine that you could buy IPv4 only equipment in 2020. Software is even worse, we have had software that advertised IPv6 support, so we build an IPv6 only solution, only to find out that the manufacturer has NEVER had a customer using their software on IPv6. They tested it six years ago and never followed up, meaning that IPv6 does actually work in the latest versions. Docker is another example, who in their right mind designed Docker to be a IPv4 only solution and then attempts to bolt on IPv6 later. It should have been IPv6 and then if you really needed it you could add an IPv4 ingress. Most of the issues we have experience using Docker could have been avoided by using IPv6 and dropping IPv4 all together.
- magicalhippo 6y ago
  > Software is even worse Indeed. Even stuff like pfSense has only rudimentary IPv6 support. And I guess software support is poor because they're still figuring out how to actually deploy IPv6, churning out new RFC's[1]. [1]: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-gont-v6ops-ipv6-addressing-considerations-00 https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-gont-v6ops-ipv6-addressing... (random example)
- iam-TJ 6y ago
  What is even more incredible in 2020 is that docker.com and hub.docker.com do not host on IPv6 .... and they're on AWS. We discovered this due to operating an IPv6-only network and having to deploy NAT64/DNS64* on the edge specifically for reaching hub.docker.com * NAT64/DNS64 was trivial to set up (Tayga + bind9) - took 2 hours for a networking apprentice

CKN23-ARIN 6y ago

Some carriers are engaging in IPv6-only peering spats, which is also harming adoption. Cogent, recipient (and rejector) of the famous Peering Cake[1], has no IPv6 routes to Google or Hurricane Electric, for example. [1] https://www.datacenterknowledge.com/sites/datacenterknowledge.com/files/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/Hurricane-Cake.jpg https://www.datacenterknowledge.com/sites/datacenterknowledg...

mike_d 6y ago

> a bunch of lazy network admins in NA and the EU that don't want to learn the new tech Google is seeing 43% IPv6 traffic in the US, 50% in Germany, 35% in Japan, and 17% in Gabon (the most of any African country). The data seems to support the exact opposite of your assessment.

jiggawatts 6y ago
Don't confuse long-range www traffic with the total number of endpoints. Serving a single page might take dozens or even hundreds of interacting services. Not one of our enterprise customers has IPv6 enabled. Not one of the public clouds we manage have IPv6 addresses on their virtual networks. Meanwhile, putting a CDN in front of an otherwise 100% IPv4 web server will add an IPv6 address whether you like it or not, and that traffic will contribute to those stats you mentioned. This article is about public cloud providers hoarding IPv4, which applies to things like the PaaS and SaaS services, internal APIs, etc... which are nearly 100% IPv4 in all three of the big public cloud providers.

kortilla 6y ago

It has nothing to do with network admins. Everything the majority of customers care about in the US is available on IPv4 and sometimes ipv6. If v6 goes down for your customers, they probably won’t even notice. If you don’t have v4, you don’t have a business. It hasn’t even been that long that Amazon EC2 has had v6 support, which is where a huge chunk of the Internet is hosted. The network admins at ISPs are just providing connectivity the customers demand. It’s hosting providers and sys admins that don’t bother setting up anything interesting on v6 in the first place.

jiggawatts 6y ago
First: Here in Australia no major ISPs provide a native IPv6 service, and if they do, they don't provide it to business. It's obscenely difficult to obtain IPv6 in Australia. None of the major telcos do it, you have to go down the list to like the 5th or 6th biggest ones before it becomes an "experimental option" for residential connections only. Second: Ever since IPv6 has been a thing, I've offered to customers the option to turn it on for free. No added charge. We'll just flip the switches and it's there. Not one customer, ever, has said "yes". They've all actively refused to turn it on, for any purpose. Third: The few times IPv6 has been forced upon our customers, mostly due to Microsoft Windows DirectAccess, it was the network administrators frothing at the mouth, ranting and raving about how they don't want to do it, that DirectAccess should use IPv4 (I'll call Redmond and I'm sure they'll get right on it!), etc... Fourth: As you've mentioned, AWS, Azure, and GCP had practically zero IPv6 support until very recently. Now, they have broken IPv6 support which is worse than useless, because it gives the impression that the problem is with IPv6, not with the people holding on to an appreciating asset of IPv4 addresses that they intend to use to lock out the competition. TL;DR: IPv6 is held back by a combination of bad ISPs, lazy network admins, and monopoly seeking public cloud providers.
- BlueTemplar 6y ago
  At some point the government just has to step in and forbid the sale of IPv4 compatible hardware...
- rescbr 6y ago

jsz0 6y ago

Running a dual stack IPv4/IPv6 network at minimum doubles the amount of work network engineers need to do on a daily basis. Consider something as simple as a ping monitor to determine if a device is up or down now has to test for both IPv4 and IPv6 reachability.