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tl;dr: at most banks, the traders directly drive pnl. developers are seen as secondary since they treat the process as developers supporting traders. At other
by veyron 15y ago
tl;dr: at most banks, the traders directly drive pnl. developers are seen as secondary since they treat the process as developers supporting traders. At other places, the developers are the true source of "alpha", and there the developers are treated like rock stars.
"developers are treated as second-class citizens" <-- partially true
There are two classes of developers: those who drive pnl and tose who don't.
To give an example, I built an ultra low latency trading operation. My development [granted, it was only part of my work process] directly resulted in pnl and it could be proven.
Some of my friends worked in the IT departments of some investment banks (GS, MS, JPM, etc). Many of them are doing things which do not directly generate pnl, nor could their work be attributed to the revenue of any division.
"paid comparatively poorly(though not absolutely) to traders" <-- partially true
Traders are paid more because it is easier to attribute pnl to them. Developers in a quantitative shop are paid better than the traders, because in those contexts the developers bring more value to the process than traders.
"are expected to put in long hours" <-- partially true
I've never had to work outside of 9-6. However, in some places, where they care about headcount, people work longer hours.
"- Is it true that developers are treated like support staff to traders?"
Depends on the place
"- To be blunt: What are typical salaries for software engineers in finance?"
For support, salaries are like 70K. At a quant shop, you are looking at like 100-150K. At a hft developer, 200-300K is pretty common (but those jobs are hard to land, mainly because those funds arent doing as well thanks to a low VIX)
"- For those who have experience working in the Valley as well: how does it compare?"
Cannot say
- michael_miller 15y agoWhat skills do HFT shops look for in a developer? Do they require finance knowledge, or do they "just" want a rockstar systems hacker who can optimize packet delivery latency by hacking the kernel?
- nandemo 15y agoSome people are making reports using Excel/VBA or Perl, some are building trading gateways in C++ from scratch, some are developing trading models (typically requires a PhD or a financial engineering master's). Take a look at the websites of the prop trading shops cdmcnamara mentioned. Mind you, getting a job at SIG, Jane Street, etc, is harder than getting a job at Google, Facebook, etc.
- veyron 15y ago"Some people are making reports using Excel/VBA or Perl" <-- these are the second-class people, so to speak. "some are building trading gateways in C++ from scratch" <-- depending on the shop, its either support (banks) or first-class (hft) "some are developing trading models (typically requires a PhD or a financial engineering master's)" <-- this is not completely true. GETCO for example hires mostly bachelor's. "getting a job at SIG, Jane Street, etc, is harder than getting a job at Google, Facebook, etc." <-- its primarily harder because the competition is tighter and the work is very different from what silicon valley asks for.