6 ms·

I feel reasonably confident my overall health is good enough that if I got COVID it would be OK. The vaccine, while probably fine, seems like more of a wildcar

by dilap 6y ago

I feel reasonably confident my overall health is good enough that if I got COVID it would be OK. The vaccine, while probably fine, seems like more of a wildcard to me. It seems like a low-probability lottery ticket to bad news, whereas COVID seems like a lower-probability lottery ticket to bad news. (Of course, the government may force the issue. I hope not, though. My body, my choice and all that.)

jm4 6y ago
I'm young, I was in good overall health, I took precautions, I developed covid symptoms 2 weeks ago and I'm fighting it off in a hospital right now. I came in with partially collapsed lungs and pneumonia. I'm expected to be here until next week. This virus is something from hell. It is a miserable and scary experience that I wouldn't wish on anyone. I would take a vaccine (only Pfizer or Moderna) and the associated risks over the experience I'm having now 10/10.
- dilap 6y ago
  Sorry to hear that; wishing you a speedy and full recovery.
deathanatos 6y ago
You should be adding up the probability of complications to all your loved ones that you unknowingly spread it to should you get infected, too. (The same reason I usually get a flu shot: it's not that I can't withstand the flu, it's that there are those around me who might not withstand it. I don't want to be responsible for having passed that on to someone.)
- dilap 6y ago
  I'm not telling anyone I had the vaccine when I didn't. They're free to avoid me if they want. Many things we selfishly do endanger others. Ever driven a car? But honestly, in my gut, I don't feel like I'm endangering people. I'm doing the thing that I think will most likely make me healthy, and that will most likely result in best outcomes for others, too. I may have some bias here because the only 2 times I've gotten the flu as an adult are the two times I got the the flu shot, like you're supposed to do. So maybe that's just coincidence, but my operating theory now is, no more flu shots until I get the flu again. If I do, then I'll reconsider.
  - deathanatos 6y ago
    > Many things we selfishly do endanger others. Ever driven a car? Yes, and I take various precautions when doing so to reduce the risk to those around me. But, driving a car gets me from point A to B. There's a trade-off. Near as I can tell from the available data from studies on the new vaccines, the risk and consequences of getting COVID outweigh the risks and consequences of getting the vaccine, perhaps by several orders of magnitude. The number of both cases & deaths have reached nation-wide highs, and basically all states are seeing upticks in prevalence, likely to be made worse by Christmas. The tests on the vaccines have shown it to be effective, and have had minimal side-effects (I've heard some reports of non-life-threatening allergic reaction, and 1 more serious case that is being investigated. There were 43,000 people in the Pfizer study alone, I think. That is significantly better than the confirmed COVID-19 case rate. https://www.statnews.com/2020/11/09/covid-19-vaccine-from-pfizer-and-biontech-is-strongly-effective-early-data-from-large-trial-indicate/ https://www.statnews.com/2020/11/09/covid-19-vaccine-from-pf...) > I may have some bias here because the only 2 times I've gotten the flu as an adult are the two times I got the the flu shot, like you're supposed to do. So maybe that's just coincidence, but my operating theory now is, no more flu shots until I get the flu again. If I do, then I'll reconsider. It's just coincidence: > studies show that flu vaccination reduces the risk of flu illness by between 40% and 60% among the overall population during seasons when most circulating flu viruses are well-matched to the flu vaccine. (https://www.cdc.gov/flu/vaccines-work/vaccineeffect.htm https://www.cdc.gov/flu/vaccines-work/vaccineeffect.htm)
    - dilap 6y ago
      i think the only place i disagree with you is that in my mind we really have no idea about longer-term possible side effects of the vaccine. it's a totally novel, new kind of vaccine, right? i agree the flu shot is probably coincidence, but at least until/if i get the flu w/o it, i'm going to be guided by my first-hand experience for now. if i get the flu again, i will do more research and reconsider.
- innomatics 6y ago
  It's nice to believe this, but having a flu jab is only proven to protect yourself. It's not sterilising immunity so you can still become infected, shed virus, and infect others while asymptomatic. It's quite dangerous if a lot people don't get that the covid vaccines also aren't proved (and are unlikely) to contain transmission. Risk is folks think that we will not longer need to care about hygiene, masks, isolation, quarantine and tracing once most people have been vaccinated.
  - deathanatos 6y ago
    > It's nice to believe this, but having a flu jab is only proven to protect yourself. It's not sterilising immunity so you can still become infected, shed virus, and infect others while asymptomatic. This directly contradicts the CDC: > Getting vaccinated yourself may also protect people around you, including those who are more vulnerable to serious flu illness, like babies and young children, older people, and people with certain chronic health conditions. [1]: https://www.cdc.gov/flu/prevent/keyfacts.htm https://www.cdc.gov/flu/prevent/keyfacts.htm
    - Amezarak 6y ago
      This isn't a contradiction at all. GP is saying it isn't proven to protect others. Your CDC quote says it "may" protect others. I don't know the actual science here - but they could very well have zero evidence that it protects others and still correctly say that getting the flu vaccine may protect others.
mdavidn 6y ago
The overlooked differentiator: Vaccine "bad news" is not highly contagious to your family, friends, and colleagues.

by dilap 6y ago

jm4 6y ago

I'm young, I was in good overall health, I took precautions, I developed covid symptoms 2 weeks ago and I'm fighting it off in a hospital right now. I came in with partially collapsed lungs and pneumonia. I'm expected to be here until next week. This virus is something from hell. It is a miserable and scary experience that I wouldn't wish on anyone. I would take a vaccine (only Pfizer or Moderna) and the associated risks over the experience I'm having now 10/10.

dilap 6y ago
Sorry to hear that; wishing you a speedy and full recovery.

deathanatos 6y ago

You should be adding up the probability of complications to all your loved ones that you unknowingly spread it to should you get infected, too. (The same reason I usually get a flu shot: it's not that I can't withstand the flu, it's that there are those around me who might not withstand it. I don't want to be responsible for having passed that on to someone.)

dilap 6y ago
I'm not telling anyone I had the vaccine when I didn't. They're free to avoid me if they want. Many things we selfishly do endanger others. Ever driven a car? But honestly, in my gut, I don't feel like I'm endangering people. I'm doing the thing that I think will most likely make me healthy, and that will most likely result in best outcomes for others, too. I may have some bias here because the only 2 times I've gotten the flu as an adult are the two times I got the the flu shot, like you're supposed to do. So maybe that's just coincidence, but my operating theory now is, no more flu shots until I get the flu again. If I do, then I'll reconsider.
- deathanatos 6y ago
  > Many things we selfishly do endanger others. Ever driven a car? Yes, and I take various precautions when doing so to reduce the risk to those around me. But, driving a car gets me from point A to B. There's a trade-off. Near as I can tell from the available data from studies on the new vaccines, the risk and consequences of getting COVID outweigh the risks and consequences of getting the vaccine, perhaps by several orders of magnitude. The number of both cases & deaths have reached nation-wide highs, and basically all states are seeing upticks in prevalence, likely to be made worse by Christmas. The tests on the vaccines have shown it to be effective, and have had minimal side-effects (I've heard some reports of non-life-threatening allergic reaction, and 1 more serious case that is being investigated. There were 43,000 people in the Pfizer study alone, I think. That is significantly better than the confirmed COVID-19 case rate. https://www.statnews.com/2020/11/09/covid-19-vaccine-from-pfizer-and-biontech-is-strongly-effective-early-data-from-large-trial-indicate/ https://www.statnews.com/2020/11/09/covid-19-vaccine-from-pf...) > I may have some bias here because the only 2 times I've gotten the flu as an adult are the two times I got the the flu shot, like you're supposed to do. So maybe that's just coincidence, but my operating theory now is, no more flu shots until I get the flu again. If I do, then I'll reconsider. It's just coincidence: > studies show that flu vaccination reduces the risk of flu illness by between 40% and 60% among the overall population during seasons when most circulating flu viruses are well-matched to the flu vaccine. (https://www.cdc.gov/flu/vaccines-work/vaccineeffect.htm https://www.cdc.gov/flu/vaccines-work/vaccineeffect.htm)
  - dilap 6y ago
    i think the only place i disagree with you is that in my mind we really have no idea about longer-term possible side effects of the vaccine. it's a totally novel, new kind of vaccine, right? i agree the flu shot is probably coincidence, but at least until/if i get the flu w/o it, i'm going to be guided by my first-hand experience for now. if i get the flu again, i will do more research and reconsider.
innomatics 6y ago
It's nice to believe this, but having a flu jab is only proven to protect yourself. It's not sterilising immunity so you can still become infected, shed virus, and infect others while asymptomatic. It's quite dangerous if a lot people don't get that the covid vaccines also aren't proved (and are unlikely) to contain transmission. Risk is folks think that we will not longer need to care about hygiene, masks, isolation, quarantine and tracing once most people have been vaccinated.
- deathanatos 6y ago
  > It's nice to believe this, but having a flu jab is only proven to protect yourself. It's not sterilising immunity so you can still become infected, shed virus, and infect others while asymptomatic. This directly contradicts the CDC: > Getting vaccinated yourself may also protect people around you, including those who are more vulnerable to serious flu illness, like babies and young children, older people, and people with certain chronic health conditions. [1]: https://www.cdc.gov/flu/prevent/keyfacts.htm https://www.cdc.gov/flu/prevent/keyfacts.htm
  - Amezarak 6y ago
    This isn't a contradiction at all. GP is saying it isn't proven to protect others. Your CDC quote says it "may" protect others. I don't know the actual science here - but they could very well have zero evidence that it protects others and still correctly say that getting the flu vaccine may protect others.

mdavidn 6y ago

The overlooked differentiator: Vaccine "bad news" is not highly contagious to your family, friends, and colleagues.