4 ms·

There are barely 80 votes at the moment of writing this comment, of which barely 10 are a "NO", so it's a bit early for "high percentage". (Edit: Now it's 73/(7

by krick 6y ago

There are barely 80 votes at the moment of writing this comment, of which barely 10 are a "NO", so it's a bit early for "high percentage". (Edit: Now it's 73/(798 + 279 + 73), less than 7%, so the point stands.) But I'm a "NO", FWIW. And while I'm not surprised by the "high percentage" of "YES" votes because of HN demographics, I do not approve. I mean, I don't really care what other people do with their lives, but this shouldn't be expected to be the default choice. For the record, vaccines are not a controversial topic in my country like they seem to be in the USA. Kids are vaccinated at school, I received numerous vaccines during my life, some of them totally optional and quite expensive, which I paid for anyway, because it felt like a safer way to be. And of course I do not think vaccines are an evil plan of Bill Gates to... I'm not even sure what the crazy conspiracy theory about that is supposed to be, but I'm pretty sure there is some. But I am a crazy conspiracy theorist in a sense that I firmly believe that COVID-19 is hugely overhyped. Of course, I'm scared and ashamed of saying that, because nowadays this seems to be a stronger version of saying "Hitler did nothing wrong", but you are asking about "why no", so here we are. Basically, it's a trade off between reasons to do it and reasons not to (as always). Is there a reason to avoid doing it? Well, yes. Basically, expectation that everyone should do it is that reason: the topic is insanely hot, and it's never a good thing. This is a huge business opportunity for every pharmaceutical company that gets to push their vaccine right now, and this is some hastily cooked shit you expect me to take. Some of these vaccines are quite a novelty, which is not a bad thing on its own, but this is unlike most vaccines I have ever taken, which are basically decades old and literally millions of people have taken them before me. Maybe it's totally safe, maybe it isn't. No couple-months-long trial will ever answer that. Is there a reason to take it? Well, sure. Like there is a reason to take a flu vaccine. Which I don't do, because there are new mutations every year, and there are countless more versions of "common cold". Yes, people die of that, and it's never a pleasant experience, and I live in a cold climate, where this is a very common seasonal thing, but it's just how things are. It's ok. And I'm not going to elaborate on all "Hitler did nothing wrong" thing, because what I've said so far is more than enough to trigger someone, but, well, I know people that had been sick with COVID-19. I contacted them in person when they were already sick, and it just so happens that neither of us was wearing any mask. I wasn't really a responsible citizen all the time. It doesn't seem that the stakes are much higher than with a flu. For some of people it seemed to be more like a really light version of a common cold. So there's a little of "no" vs a little of "yes" and it just so happens that "no" overweights quite confidently. Maybe it is fair to say that I should've voted "I'll wail", because this "no" isn't final. But then no "yes" is final either, anything can happen, the last year should've taught us that if anything. And I don't have any specific date I have to wait for. The point is, currently I'm not going to do that, and I hope it stays this way.

jart 6y ago
> I firmly believe that COVID-19 is hugely overhyped I've read your concerns and take the gravest possible offense to this. It's not just about the new coronavirus, but what comes next. Tools like crispr are now within the means of the nuclear boyscout, who can unleash an airborne pathogen upon humanity that performs genetic engineering at scale. All that's required is the will to do so. Stuff like that frightens me far more. If the reaction to this new coronavirus is what's needed to help humanity prepare, then we're likely to be far safer and healthier down the road.
pteraspidomorph 6y ago
It's not about what happens to you or to your healthy friends. The major difference here is the long incubation period. You catch the virus, you become contagious, you pass it on, and a few days later you develop your mild cold symptoms. You go through it and you are fine. But by allowing yourself to get infected in the first place, you have spread the virus to an unknown number of people. Down the road, perhaps months later, if not enough people have vaccinated to end the pandemic, you may have indirectly caused deaths among the more vulnerable. Information on contagion: https://medical.mit.edu/covid-19-updates/2020/10/exposed-to-covid-19-how-soon-contagious https://medical.mit.edu/covid-19-updates/2020/10/exposed-to-...
- Thiez 6y ago
  Surely the same logic applies to all infectious diseases, and we should all get yearly flu shots, permanently practice social distancing, wear masks, etc. lest we maybe be complicit in the deaths of the vulnerable?
  - pteraspidomorph 6y ago
    In some countries people wear masks when they have any respiratory diseases and do not touch the strangers they are greeting, which seems sensible. Otherwise, it depends on the parameters of the diseases you are trying to stay safe against. The thing about the flu is that you develop symptoms earlier, so the window of oportunity for unknowing transmission is shorter (on average). From what we know at this time, it's a less deadly disease than COVID-19. And it mutates quickly, with each season bringing new strains. I think if it was possible to erradicate it completely through vaccination that would be something worth considering, too. Nobody likes that it exists. https://www.cdc.gov/flu/symptoms/flu-vs-covid19.htm https://www.cdc.gov/flu/symptoms/flu-vs-covid19.htm https://bgr.com/2020/10/21/coronavirus-death-rate-vs-flu-cdc-study/ https://bgr.com/2020/10/21/coronavirus-death-rate-vs-flu-cdc... (sourced)

by krick 6y ago

jart 6y ago

> I firmly believe that COVID-19 is hugely overhyped I've read your concerns and take the gravest possible offense to this. It's not just about the new coronavirus, but what comes next. Tools like crispr are now within the means of the nuclear boyscout, who can unleash an airborne pathogen upon humanity that performs genetic engineering at scale. All that's required is the will to do so. Stuff like that frightens me far more. If the reaction to this new coronavirus is what's needed to help humanity prepare, then we're likely to be far safer and healthier down the road.

pteraspidomorph 6y ago

It's not about what happens to you or to your healthy friends. The major difference here is the long incubation period. You catch the virus, you become contagious, you pass it on, and a few days later you develop your mild cold symptoms. You go through it and you are fine. But by allowing yourself to get infected in the first place, you have spread the virus to an unknown number of people. Down the road, perhaps months later, if not enough people have vaccinated to end the pandemic, you may have indirectly caused deaths among the more vulnerable. Information on contagion: https://medical.mit.edu/covid-19-updates/2020/10/exposed-to-covid-19-how-soon-contagious https://medical.mit.edu/covid-19-updates/2020/10/exposed-to-...

Thiez 6y ago
Surely the same logic applies to all infectious diseases, and we should all get yearly flu shots, permanently practice social distancing, wear masks, etc. lest we maybe be complicit in the deaths of the vulnerable?
- pteraspidomorph 6y ago
  In some countries people wear masks when they have any respiratory diseases and do not touch the strangers they are greeting, which seems sensible. Otherwise, it depends on the parameters of the diseases you are trying to stay safe against. The thing about the flu is that you develop symptoms earlier, so the window of oportunity for unknowing transmission is shorter (on average). From what we know at this time, it's a less deadly disease than COVID-19. And it mutates quickly, with each season bringing new strains. I think if it was possible to erradicate it completely through vaccination that would be something worth considering, too. Nobody likes that it exists. https://www.cdc.gov/flu/symptoms/flu-vs-covid19.htm https://www.cdc.gov/flu/symptoms/flu-vs-covid19.htm https://bgr.com/2020/10/21/coronavirus-death-rate-vs-flu-cdc-study/ https://bgr.com/2020/10/21/coronavirus-death-rate-vs-flu-cdc... (sourced)