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Not sure why you would think a vaccine being managed by the government will be rolled out in a sane and consistent manner? edit As was correctly pointed out, I

Not sure why you would think a vaccine being managed by the government will be rolled out in a sane and consistent manner? edit As was correctly pointed out, I should mention I'm speaking purely about the US and not any other country.

Barrin92 6y ago
because believe it or not some people live in countries where the government manages to do just that.
- JumpCrisscross 6y ago
  I have already watched wealthy people in Germany and France and China skip the queue.
  - Kliment 6y ago
    Outside clinical trials nobody in Germany or France has been vaccinated as there are no approved vaccines in those countries.
    - JumpCrisscross 6y ago
      > nobody in Germany or France has been vaccinated as there are no approved vaccines Which creates a force field around the warehouses in which it sits? Come on. I guess I’ll revise to I know of people with substantial resources, hundreds of millions and billions at their disposal, who have been injected with something they believe to be the Pfizer vaccine.
      - Kliment 6y ago
        I'm sure it's possible, but that means effectively that said person is now an undocumented trial participant. They have gotten injected with an unapproved medical product. That's a risk they've taken in order to get in early. The physician that administered it has also committed a crime that can cost them their license to practice. There are easier ways for people in power to get vaccines. In China, the government has granted exceptional permissions to vaccinate a number of people with a vaccine that has not yet completed phase 3 trials. The list of people who qualify for that vaccine is said to be several million people long. It's much easier to get on said list in China than it is anywhere else. A number of other governments have also made exceptions for political leaders and such, treating them with non-approved medication or vaccines. For example, the sheikh of Dubai has been vaccinated with the Sinopharm vaccine before approval (in a very public display of faith in said vaccine, in order to promote vaccination to the population). Some countries are saying they won't bother waiting for phase 3 trials to end on some products and will make vaccines generally available based on current data. This is the case for Russia (with Sputnik-V) and Morocco (with the Sinopharm vaccine). I consider it highly likely that their heads of state are vaccinated under an exceptional authorization.
      - jariel 6y ago
        JumpCrisscross is on point here, the level of naivte in the discussion is a little much. This is a global pandemic, trials with 30 000 patients x 5, each one of those vials worth an absolute fortune, there's a 100% chance quite a bit of it has fled into the black market and a sophisticated one at that. And to wit - there are a lot of people being 'officially' vaccinated right now behind the scenes they're not going to tell us about. It might be dangerous for politicians to get it early, because if asked by reporters either they have to lie, or say 'yes' and then public outcry. Special Forces, the Secret Service and some other security personal - just a some examples are going to get it long before we plebes. Among others.
      - CyberDildonics 6y ago
        To be clear, you know multiple super rich people that were able to get a vaccine out of a -70C warehouse and keep it refrigerated while it was delivered to them?
        emmelaich 6y ago
        A more promising vaccine was developed in January 2020 and requires only -4C https://www.cell.com/med/fulltext/S2666-6340(20)30027-1 https://www.cell.com/med/fulltext/S2666-6340(20)30027-1 and has had good results in trials from March.
        karlshea 6y ago
        The link in your comment doesn't have anything to do with what you've said.
        emmelaich 6y ago
        OK, try this. https://www.thecut.com/2020/11/a-second-covid-vaccine-may-be-nearly-95-percent-effective.html https://www.thecut.com/2020/11/a-second-covid-vaccine-may-be... Also, I'm guessing that JumpCrissCross doesn't know specifically that it is the Pfizer vaccine. It could be the Moderna one.
        karlshea 6y ago
        What do you mean, "try"? You said > A more promising vaccine was developed in January 2020 and requires only -4C Which vaccine is this? The link you just posted talks about Moderna, which started trials in August.
        emmelaich 6y ago
        OK, try this: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/12/moderna-covid-19-vaccine-design.html https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/12/moderna-covid-19-vac... Designed by Jan 13, manufactured and first trial by mid-Feb. Also quote .. >as early as July the MIT Technology Review reported that a group of 70 scientists in the orbit of Harvard and MIT, including “celebrity geneticist” George Church, were taking a totally DIY nasal-spray vaccine,
  - thelean12 6y ago
    Skip the queue for what? Did they get the vaccine already before it was approved? This is likely complete misinformation. Why is there so much misinformation on HN today?
    - JumpCrisscross 6y ago
      > Did they get the vaccine already before it was approved? Yup. It’s sitting in warehouses ready for distribution. No idea how. And no idea how they trusted it to be legitimate.
      - rmrfstar 6y ago
        Supply chain integrity is a huge issue that normies take for granted. The surest way to lose normie friends is to point out how much faith people put in supply chains.
    - natechols 6y ago
      Or alternately, what the GP is really telling us is that the rich and powerful are easily duped into spending their money on placebos.
      - JumpCrisscross 6y ago
        > the rich and powerful are easily duped into spending their money on placebos That was frankly my line of questioning. But at least in the German case, the vials and packaging looked legitimate. And it was a reputable doctor administering it at their home who claimed to have directly procured it, though I’m sure that meant warehouse workers or something in the middle, so who knows.
        natechols 6y ago
        If that is the case everyone involved is playing an exceptionally dangerous game and I can't imagine that this would be the norm, especially since I suspect the thieves will get greedy and screw up quickly.
  - majormajor 6y ago
    This could use some elaboration. Have you been in all three of those countries recently? Or "watched" meaning "saw people talking about online" or such? Or something in between?
    - JumpCrisscross 6y ago
      I was in Germany in October and with the individual the day they took the second shot. France is a professional contact who mentioned it on the phone, as is China. Same thing happened with tests a few months ago in Palo Alto. Billionaires with boxes of them at their homes while public stocks ran low.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - mahkeiro 6y ago
        If billionaires want to take part to the clinical trials go ahead. I mean they look for volunteers all the times. PS: They were no COVID vaccine in October but clinical trials.
      - bscphil 6y ago
        Even taking all this at face value, I think the reason so many of your comments are downvoted is that they're sort of off topic for the original suggestion, which was that the government should not be trusted to handle rollout of the vaccine in a safe or fair manner. That would include giving people in positions of power or with a lot of wealth some loophole to legally be vaccinated ahead of schedule. What you're talking about is literally a black market. The people you are hanging out with are literally criminals, who are at best injecting themselves with an unknown substance provided by criminal doctors. Most of us probably wish to see such people prosecuted.
      - TheRealSteel 6y ago
        Okay so first of all I'm almost certain no approved vaccine existed in October, the first one started rollout this week, can you back this up with a source? Maybe you knew someone participating in a study but that's not queue skipping. Don't get me wrong I hate billionaires but this just seems like it can't factually be correct.
- bird_monster 6y ago
  Sorry, you're right, I'm speaking about my country explicitly.
  - sonotmyname 6y ago
    Then you should be aware that the federal government is merely distributing the vaccines to the states, who will determine rollouts and eligibility. Seems like you're pretty eager to find an excuse to bash the federal government, which I'd normally be all for - but in this case it's a moot point.
CodeGlitch 6y ago
In the UK this is being managed by the NHS (someone correct me if this is incorrect). They do this every year for managing the Flu Virus.
- h3cate 6y ago
  In the UK I don't think anybody has a clue what anybody else is doing :')
pc86 6y ago
I know the anti-administration circle jerk is pretty strong here but the administration actually doesn't have much of any control over the roll-out plan. I have physician friends with reservations for vaccinations as early as next week. There are hundreds of people working on the roll-out plan. Trump isn't sitting in the Oval deciding which Walgreens are getting the vaccine when.
grumple 6y ago
The US has managed to get the population vaccinated previously, and adults will be in charge of the executive again in a month or so. Unfortunately, that’s too late when it comes to ordering enough of the mRNA vaccines, but it will help to have the pandemic taken seriously.
EL_Loco 6y ago
Wait, I just realized now that universal free vaccination might not be a thing in the US. I live in a developing country with 200 million people, and the dozen or so most common vaccines are free to everyone, and everyone gets it and it is managed by the government. I'm sorry, but it works. Government here has /many/ faults, but managing vaccination for 200+ million's not really one of them.
- rootusrootus 6y ago
  The coronavirus vaccine is free in the US.
  - alistairSH 6y ago
    Pretty much, but it's not all covered by Uncle Sam. The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services is paying for the vaccine doses. It is up to individual's insurance plan to pay for administration of the vaccine. I'm not sure how that works for somebody who lacks insurance. More details: https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/28/health/cms-medicare-covid-vaccine-treatment/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/28/health/cms-medicare-covid-vac...
deelowe 6y ago
Well, I mean you could go review their plans, if you are so concerned. They will begin vaccinating any day now.
notJim 6y ago
If you're in the US, you can look at the federal planning as well as the plans for your state most likely. From what I've seen, they look pretty reasonable.
mypalmike 6y ago
So your argument is "government bad". I counter with "government good". See how productive this discussion is?
- ARandomerDude 6y ago
  I think his argument was "government is typically inefficient." is your counterclaim that government is typically efficient?
  - mypalmike 6y ago
    My claim is that "government bad" and similar broad brush claims about government are completely lacking in content. But to your point, from sending humans into space to clearing snow off the roads, "government" absolutely destroys the private sector in efficiency and effectiveness for many important things. I'd rather let the CDC work on vaccine distribution protocols than leave it to Taco Bell.
    - bird_monster 6y ago
      > similar broad brush claims about government are completely lacking in content. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_government_response_to_Hurricane_Katrina https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_government_respon... Or, specifically: > Due to the slow response to the hurricane, New Orleans's top emergency management official called the effort a "national disgrace" and questioned when reinforcements would actually reach the increasingly desperate city.[10] New Orleans's emergency operations chief Terry Ebbert blamed the inadequate response on the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA). "This is not a FEMA operation. I haven't seen a single FEMA guy", he said. "FEMA has been here three days, yet there is no command and control. We can send massive amounts of aid to tsunami victims, but we can't bail out the city of New Orleans."[10] On COVID: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jacquelyncorley/2020/04/10/us-government-response-to-covid-19-was-slow-but-how-does-it-compare-to-other-countries https://www.forbes.com/sites/jacquelyncorley/2020/04/10/us-g... I think that two colossal failures are enough to convey a "The government responds inefficiently and generally poorly to significant humanitarian issues". > absolutely destroys the private sector in efficiency and effectiveness for many important things. Maybe. Lots of private sector work is held up specifically _by_ government. > I'd rather let the CDC work on vaccine distribution protocols than leave it to Taco Bell. I mean... I agree. But I never suggested we leave vaccines in the hands of chain businesses. I just pointed out that, historically, the US government botches jobs like this spectacularly. The confidence lots of these comments have in the govt efficiently distributing the vaccinations based on need, to me, is not in line with the realities of the US government wrt issues of public health and safety.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

Barrin92 6y ago

because believe it or not some people live in countries where the government manages to do just that.

JumpCrisscross 6y ago
I have already watched wealthy people in Germany and France and China skip the queue.
- Kliment 6y ago
  Outside clinical trials nobody in Germany or France has been vaccinated as there are no approved vaccines in those countries.
  - JumpCrisscross 6y ago
    > nobody in Germany or France has been vaccinated as there are no approved vaccines Which creates a force field around the warehouses in which it sits? Come on. I guess I’ll revise to I know of people with substantial resources, hundreds of millions and billions at their disposal, who have been injected with something they believe to be the Pfizer vaccine.
    - Kliment 6y ago
      I'm sure it's possible, but that means effectively that said person is now an undocumented trial participant. They have gotten injected with an unapproved medical product. That's a risk they've taken in order to get in early. The physician that administered it has also committed a crime that can cost them their license to practice. There are easier ways for people in power to get vaccines. In China, the government has granted exceptional permissions to vaccinate a number of people with a vaccine that has not yet completed phase 3 trials. The list of people who qualify for that vaccine is said to be several million people long. It's much easier to get on said list in China than it is anywhere else. A number of other governments have also made exceptions for political leaders and such, treating them with non-approved medication or vaccines. For example, the sheikh of Dubai has been vaccinated with the Sinopharm vaccine before approval (in a very public display of faith in said vaccine, in order to promote vaccination to the population). Some countries are saying they won't bother waiting for phase 3 trials to end on some products and will make vaccines generally available based on current data. This is the case for Russia (with Sputnik-V) and Morocco (with the Sinopharm vaccine). I consider it highly likely that their heads of state are vaccinated under an exceptional authorization.
    - jariel 6y ago
      JumpCrisscross is on point here, the level of naivte in the discussion is a little much. This is a global pandemic, trials with 30 000 patients x 5, each one of those vials worth an absolute fortune, there's a 100% chance quite a bit of it has fled into the black market and a sophisticated one at that. And to wit - there are a lot of people being 'officially' vaccinated right now behind the scenes they're not going to tell us about. It might be dangerous for politicians to get it early, because if asked by reporters either they have to lie, or say 'yes' and then public outcry. Special Forces, the Secret Service and some other security personal - just a some examples are going to get it long before we plebes. Among others.
    - CyberDildonics 6y ago
      To be clear, you know multiple super rich people that were able to get a vaccine out of a -70C warehouse and keep it refrigerated while it was delivered to them?
      - emmelaich 6y ago
        A more promising vaccine was developed in January 2020 and requires only -4C https://www.cell.com/med/fulltext/S2666-6340(20)30027-1 https://www.cell.com/med/fulltext/S2666-6340(20)30027-1 and has had good results in trials from March.
        karlshea 6y ago
        The link in your comment doesn't have anything to do with what you've said.
        emmelaich 6y ago
        OK, try this. https://www.thecut.com/2020/11/a-second-covid-vaccine-may-be-nearly-95-percent-effective.html https://www.thecut.com/2020/11/a-second-covid-vaccine-may-be... Also, I'm guessing that JumpCrissCross doesn't know specifically that it is the Pfizer vaccine. It could be the Moderna one.
        karlshea 6y ago
        What do you mean, "try"? You said > A more promising vaccine was developed in January 2020 and requires only -4C Which vaccine is this? The link you just posted talks about Moderna, which started trials in August.
        emmelaich 6y ago
        OK, try this: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/12/moderna-covid-19-vaccine-design.html https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/12/moderna-covid-19-vac... Designed by Jan 13, manufactured and first trial by mid-Feb. Also quote .. >as early as July the MIT Technology Review reported that a group of 70 scientists in the orbit of Harvard and MIT, including “celebrity geneticist” George Church, were taking a totally DIY nasal-spray vaccine,
- thelean12 6y ago
  Skip the queue for what? Did they get the vaccine already before it was approved? This is likely complete misinformation. Why is there so much misinformation on HN today?
  - JumpCrisscross 6y ago
    > Did they get the vaccine already before it was approved? Yup. It’s sitting in warehouses ready for distribution. No idea how. And no idea how they trusted it to be legitimate.
    - rmrfstar 6y ago
      Supply chain integrity is a huge issue that normies take for granted. The surest way to lose normie friends is to point out how much faith people put in supply chains.
  - natechols 6y ago
    Or alternately, what the GP is really telling us is that the rich and powerful are easily duped into spending their money on placebos.
    - JumpCrisscross 6y ago
      > the rich and powerful are easily duped into spending their money on placebos That was frankly my line of questioning. But at least in the German case, the vials and packaging looked legitimate. And it was a reputable doctor administering it at their home who claimed to have directly procured it, though I’m sure that meant warehouse workers or something in the middle, so who knows.
      - natechols 6y ago
        If that is the case everyone involved is playing an exceptionally dangerous game and I can't imagine that this would be the norm, especially since I suspect the thieves will get greedy and screw up quickly.
- majormajor 6y ago
  This could use some elaboration. Have you been in all three of those countries recently? Or "watched" meaning "saw people talking about online" or such? Or something in between?
  - JumpCrisscross 6y ago
    I was in Germany in October and with the individual the day they took the second shot. France is a professional contact who mentioned it on the phone, as is China. Same thing happened with tests a few months ago in Palo Alto. Billionaires with boxes of them at their homes while public stocks ran low.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - mahkeiro 6y ago
      If billionaires want to take part to the clinical trials go ahead. I mean they look for volunteers all the times. PS: They were no COVID vaccine in October but clinical trials.
    - bscphil 6y ago
      Even taking all this at face value, I think the reason so many of your comments are downvoted is that they're sort of off topic for the original suggestion, which was that the government should not be trusted to handle rollout of the vaccine in a safe or fair manner. That would include giving people in positions of power or with a lot of wealth some loophole to legally be vaccinated ahead of schedule. What you're talking about is literally a black market. The people you are hanging out with are literally criminals, who are at best injecting themselves with an unknown substance provided by criminal doctors. Most of us probably wish to see such people prosecuted.
    - TheRealSteel 6y ago
      Okay so first of all I'm almost certain no approved vaccine existed in October, the first one started rollout this week, can you back this up with a source? Maybe you knew someone participating in a study but that's not queue skipping. Don't get me wrong I hate billionaires but this just seems like it can't factually be correct.
bird_monster 6y ago
Sorry, you're right, I'm speaking about my country explicitly.
- sonotmyname 6y ago
  Then you should be aware that the federal government is merely distributing the vaccines to the states, who will determine rollouts and eligibility. Seems like you're pretty eager to find an excuse to bash the federal government, which I'd normally be all for - but in this case it's a moot point.

CodeGlitch 6y ago

In the UK this is being managed by the NHS (someone correct me if this is incorrect). They do this every year for managing the Flu Virus.

h3cate 6y ago
In the UK I don't think anybody has a clue what anybody else is doing :')

pc86 6y ago

I know the anti-administration circle jerk is pretty strong here but the administration actually doesn't have much of any control over the roll-out plan. I have physician friends with reservations for vaccinations as early as next week. There are hundreds of people working on the roll-out plan. Trump isn't sitting in the Oval deciding which Walgreens are getting the vaccine when.

grumple 6y ago

The US has managed to get the population vaccinated previously, and adults will be in charge of the executive again in a month or so. Unfortunately, that’s too late when it comes to ordering enough of the mRNA vaccines, but it will help to have the pandemic taken seriously.

EL_Loco 6y ago

Wait, I just realized now that universal free vaccination might not be a thing in the US. I live in a developing country with 200 million people, and the dozen or so most common vaccines are free to everyone, and everyone gets it and it is managed by the government. I'm sorry, but it works. Government here has /many/ faults, but managing vaccination for 200+ million's not really one of them.

rootusrootus 6y ago
The coronavirus vaccine is free in the US.
- alistairSH 6y ago
  Pretty much, but it's not all covered by Uncle Sam. The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services is paying for the vaccine doses. It is up to individual's insurance plan to pay for administration of the vaccine. I'm not sure how that works for somebody who lacks insurance. More details: https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/28/health/cms-medicare-covid-vaccine-treatment/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/28/health/cms-medicare-covid-vac...

deelowe 6y ago

Well, I mean you could go review their plans, if you are so concerned. They will begin vaccinating any day now.

notJim 6y ago

If you're in the US, you can look at the federal planning as well as the plans for your state most likely. From what I've seen, they look pretty reasonable.

mypalmike 6y ago

So your argument is "government bad". I counter with "government good". See how productive this discussion is?

ARandomerDude 6y ago
I think his argument was "government is typically inefficient." is your counterclaim that government is typically efficient?
- mypalmike 6y ago
  My claim is that "government bad" and similar broad brush claims about government are completely lacking in content. But to your point, from sending humans into space to clearing snow off the roads, "government" absolutely destroys the private sector in efficiency and effectiveness for many important things. I'd rather let the CDC work on vaccine distribution protocols than leave it to Taco Bell.
  - bird_monster 6y ago
    > similar broad brush claims about government are completely lacking in content. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_government_response_to_Hurricane_Katrina https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_government_respon... Or, specifically: > Due to the slow response to the hurricane, New Orleans's top emergency management official called the effort a "national disgrace" and questioned when reinforcements would actually reach the increasingly desperate city.[10] New Orleans's emergency operations chief Terry Ebbert blamed the inadequate response on the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA). "This is not a FEMA operation. I haven't seen a single FEMA guy", he said. "FEMA has been here three days, yet there is no command and control. We can send massive amounts of aid to tsunami victims, but we can't bail out the city of New Orleans."[10] On COVID: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jacquelyncorley/2020/04/10/us-government-response-to-covid-19-was-slow-but-how-does-it-compare-to-other-countries https://www.forbes.com/sites/jacquelyncorley/2020/04/10/us-g... I think that two colossal failures are enough to convey a "The government responds inefficiently and generally poorly to significant humanitarian issues". > absolutely destroys the private sector in efficiency and effectiveness for many important things. Maybe. Lots of private sector work is held up specifically _by_ government. > I'd rather let the CDC work on vaccine distribution protocols than leave it to Taco Bell. I mean... I agree. But I never suggested we leave vaccines in the hands of chain businesses. I just pointed out that, historically, the US government botches jobs like this spectacularly. The confidence lots of these comments have in the govt efficiently distributing the vaccinations based on need, to me, is not in line with the realities of the US government wrt issues of public health and safety.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]