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"Californication" (yes, as referred to in the Red Hot Chili Peppers song) has been a thing for almost a century now. Oregon literally tried to ban immigrants fr

"Californication" (yes, as referred to in the Red Hot Chili Peppers song) has been a thing for almost a century now. Oregon literally tried to ban immigrants from California back in the 1940s, and Coloradoans have a notorious saying from the 60s "Don't Californicate Colorado" (it used to be a pretty common bumper sticker) due to this effect. Go to Wyoming or Idaho and people feel the same way. California has unfortunately been exporting its ridiculous cost of living and lifestyle to the American west for decades, Austin is just the latest to feel it. Somewhat related, Austinites used to also have a fairly common saying "Don't Dallas my Austin" (also related: "Keep Austin Weird"), referring to wanting to keep the "corporate" feel of Dallas out of Austin. The ship's sailed on that one too, though.

lotsofpulp 6y ago
How does a state export a cost of living? Or are you referring to price increases due to increase in demand? If so, that does not seem like a notable phenomenon.
- majormajor 6y ago
  It's almost like the cost of living is driven by MONEY, and problems result from income inequality, more than left-vs-right policies - and if the Californians getting priced-out of CA still have more money than where they're moving, then it cascades.
- tidepod12 6y ago
  Californians in LA/SF are used to paying $800k for a house, and the Cali salaries are high enough to support it. A Texan in Dallas/Austin is used to paying $250k for that same house, and has a relatively lower salary to match. The Californians, after years of having higher salary, more savings, and a job that lets them move, goes to Texas and offers $400k for that same house. The Californian thinks it's a great deal, because they get the same size house they previously lived in for only half the price! And the seller thinks it's great, because he now suddenly gets a huge premium on his previously-valued-at-$250k-house. All of the real estate responds in kind, expecting to get $400k+ from all the Cali transplants. However, the average Texan, who doesn't have that high paying salary, gets priced out and can no longer afford a house in their city. This has been happening en masse to the northern suburbs of Dallas, as well as many neighborhoods in Austin. It's gentrification, more or less, and it comes with all the same problems.
  - lotsofpulp 6y ago
    >The Californians, after years of having higher salary, more savings, and a job that lets them move, goes to Texas and offers $400k for that same house. Nobody pays more for something just because they have more savings. They pay more because they might be getting outbid by someone. I don't see the purpose of characterizing that as "California exporting higher costs of living". People with more money outbid people with less money all over the world all the time. You can say "Americans are exporting higher cost of living" by purchasing avocados from Mexico, or factory capacity in China, etc. and depriving the locals who can't afford to pay the same. I'm sure the people in the poorer neighborhoods of Dallas and Austin are complaining about the richer neighborhoods exporting a higher cost of living.
    - tidepod12 6y ago
      >Nobody pays more for something just because they have more savings. They pay more because they might be getting outbid by someone. No, they pay more because they can afford it. When a bidding war starts between a Californian and a Texan for the same house, the Texan loses every time because they can't bid as high as the Californian. It isn't just housing, either. When a new grocery store opens up in one of these neighborhoods, do you think they just sell their goods as cheap as they always have? Of course not. They want to make a profit, so they up their prices because they know the Californians are more than willing to pay for it. The Texan who now struggles to make ends meet because food is more expensive? They get pushed out. > You can say "Americans are exporting higher cost of living" by purchasing avocados from Mexico, or factory capacity in China, etc. and depriving the locals who can't afford to pay the same. Yes, that is exactly what is happening. Have you ever been to any of these countries where Americans-with-money swoop in and starting buying up goods or property? They hate it, just as much as Texans hate the Californians who are moving in.
      - lotsofpulp 6y ago
        It seems like we're saying the same thing, except that I am claiming it is unremarkable, or trivial. People with more resources have been outbidding people with fewer resources since forever, and whether they're from China or California or Kansas or the other side of town is irrelevant.
tylerFowler 6y ago
I moved from Austin to SF in November 2019 (horrible timing, I know). Before I left I was at a piano bar downtown and some of the bartenders had shirts that said "Don't forget to leave" written on the back, I also worked with some native Austinites, this mindset is getting stronger.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
Razengan 6y ago
If people had more freedom in being able to live and work -from- wherever they wanted, we'd have more enclaves of different lifestyles based on like-mindedness and choice than circumstance.
rsync 6y ago
"Go to Wyoming or Idaho and people feel the same way. California has unfortunately been exporting its ridiculous cost of living and lifestyle to the American west for decades, Austin is just the latest to feel it." It seems like that but the actual phenomenon is simply the slow, increasing urbanization of the United States. There are, of course, actual Californians moving into places like Austin and Bend and Colorado Springs but with or without them, the American expression of 21st century urbanism is what we're actually witnessing. California the place just happens to be 15-20 years ahead of most of the rest of the country on that path to urbanization which is why it's so easy to mistake it for "Californication". As evidence I would put forth Minneapolis: this is not a place that many Californians are moving to and yet they are experiencing the same kind of anti-zoning housing movement, they bemoan exploding housing prices and they aspire to the same cultural and societal progression that everyone in the Bay Area would recognize. I maintain they are not experiencing "Californication" - they are experiencing urbanization.
- jeffbee 6y ago
  Meanwhile Minneapolis is handling their housing crisis much better than we are. They responded to rising housing prices by liberalizing their zoning code in the hopes of attracting more construction. Portland has done the same thing this year by legalizing the construction of multi-family dwellings on almost any parcel in town. This, of course, is also the secret to Houston's low cost of living. California today is, for practical analytical purposes, a state with a fixed number of houses. This means we're currently operating in a regime where only the most successful and luckiest people can remain here. Unless we restart our housing production, this will continue.
  - rsync 6y ago
    "They responded to rising housing prices by liberalizing their zoning code in the hopes of attracting more construction." Yes, that is what I was referring to when I spoke of an "anti-zoning housing movement". That is a political movement that, I believe, has its roots in California. And yes, I agree with you that it has progressed further in Minneapolis than it has in, for instance, the Bay Area.
redisman 6y ago
That songs gonna be stuck in my mind the rest of the night
fuzzfactor 6y ago
All I can say now is Keep Houston Weird.

lotsofpulp 6y ago

How does a state export a cost of living? Or are you referring to price increases due to increase in demand? If so, that does not seem like a notable phenomenon.

majormajor 6y ago
It's almost like the cost of living is driven by MONEY, and problems result from income inequality, more than left-vs-right policies - and if the Californians getting priced-out of CA still have more money than where they're moving, then it cascades.
tidepod12 6y ago
Californians in LA/SF are used to paying $800k for a house, and the Cali salaries are high enough to support it. A Texan in Dallas/Austin is used to paying $250k for that same house, and has a relatively lower salary to match. The Californians, after years of having higher salary, more savings, and a job that lets them move, goes to Texas and offers $400k for that same house. The Californian thinks it's a great deal, because they get the same size house they previously lived in for only half the price! And the seller thinks it's great, because he now suddenly gets a huge premium on his previously-valued-at-$250k-house. All of the real estate responds in kind, expecting to get $400k+ from all the Cali transplants. However, the average Texan, who doesn't have that high paying salary, gets priced out and can no longer afford a house in their city. This has been happening en masse to the northern suburbs of Dallas, as well as many neighborhoods in Austin. It's gentrification, more or less, and it comes with all the same problems.
- lotsofpulp 6y ago
  >The Californians, after years of having higher salary, more savings, and a job that lets them move, goes to Texas and offers $400k for that same house. Nobody pays more for something just because they have more savings. They pay more because they might be getting outbid by someone. I don't see the purpose of characterizing that as "California exporting higher costs of living". People with more money outbid people with less money all over the world all the time. You can say "Americans are exporting higher cost of living" by purchasing avocados from Mexico, or factory capacity in China, etc. and depriving the locals who can't afford to pay the same. I'm sure the people in the poorer neighborhoods of Dallas and Austin are complaining about the richer neighborhoods exporting a higher cost of living.
  - tidepod12 6y ago
    >Nobody pays more for something just because they have more savings. They pay more because they might be getting outbid by someone. No, they pay more because they can afford it. When a bidding war starts between a Californian and a Texan for the same house, the Texan loses every time because they can't bid as high as the Californian. It isn't just housing, either. When a new grocery store opens up in one of these neighborhoods, do you think they just sell their goods as cheap as they always have? Of course not. They want to make a profit, so they up their prices because they know the Californians are more than willing to pay for it. The Texan who now struggles to make ends meet because food is more expensive? They get pushed out. > You can say "Americans are exporting higher cost of living" by purchasing avocados from Mexico, or factory capacity in China, etc. and depriving the locals who can't afford to pay the same. Yes, that is exactly what is happening. Have you ever been to any of these countries where Americans-with-money swoop in and starting buying up goods or property? They hate it, just as much as Texans hate the Californians who are moving in.
    - lotsofpulp 6y ago
      It seems like we're saying the same thing, except that I am claiming it is unremarkable, or trivial. People with more resources have been outbidding people with fewer resources since forever, and whether they're from China or California or Kansas or the other side of town is irrelevant.

tylerFowler 6y ago

I moved from Austin to SF in November 2019 (horrible timing, I know). Before I left I was at a piano bar downtown and some of the bartenders had shirts that said "Don't forget to leave" written on the back, I also worked with some native Austinites, this mindset is getting stronger.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

Razengan 6y ago

If people had more freedom in being able to live and work -from- wherever they wanted, we'd have more enclaves of different lifestyles based on like-mindedness and choice than circumstance.

rsync 6y ago

"Go to Wyoming or Idaho and people feel the same way. California has unfortunately been exporting its ridiculous cost of living and lifestyle to the American west for decades, Austin is just the latest to feel it." It seems like that but the actual phenomenon is simply the slow, increasing urbanization of the United States. There are, of course, actual Californians moving into places like Austin and Bend and Colorado Springs but with or without them, the American expression of 21st century urbanism is what we're actually witnessing. California the place just happens to be 15-20 years ahead of most of the rest of the country on that path to urbanization which is why it's so easy to mistake it for "Californication". As evidence I would put forth Minneapolis: this is not a place that many Californians are moving to and yet they are experiencing the same kind of anti-zoning housing movement, they bemoan exploding housing prices and they aspire to the same cultural and societal progression that everyone in the Bay Area would recognize. I maintain they are not experiencing "Californication" - they are experiencing urbanization.

jeffbee 6y ago
Meanwhile Minneapolis is handling their housing crisis much better than we are. They responded to rising housing prices by liberalizing their zoning code in the hopes of attracting more construction. Portland has done the same thing this year by legalizing the construction of multi-family dwellings on almost any parcel in town. This, of course, is also the secret to Houston's low cost of living. California today is, for practical analytical purposes, a state with a fixed number of houses. This means we're currently operating in a regime where only the most successful and luckiest people can remain here. Unless we restart our housing production, this will continue.
- rsync 6y ago
  "They responded to rising housing prices by liberalizing their zoning code in the hopes of attracting more construction." Yes, that is what I was referring to when I spoke of an "anti-zoning housing movement". That is a political movement that, I believe, has its roots in California. And yes, I agree with you that it has progressed further in Minneapolis than it has in, for instance, the Bay Area.

redisman 6y ago

That songs gonna be stuck in my mind the rest of the night

fuzzfactor 6y ago

All I can say now is Keep Houston Weird.