3 ms·

That doesn't read to me as something distinguished from narcissism. That sounds like it is exactly the same traits as narcissism, the only difference is how the

by tremon 6y ago

That doesn't read to me as something distinguished from narcissism. That sounds like it is exactly the same traits as narcissism, the only difference is how the person ranks himself in regards to his peers. Some maybe the level of self-esteem shouldn't be considered a determining factor for narcissism?

bayindirh 6y ago
In my experience narcissistic traits start with a normalish personality appearance with a bit overconfidence, then it reveals itself. TIV is a more soft, hurt presentation with silent/passive strategies to damage someone. It's more silent, slower and harder to stop if your self esteem is also low. This makes it a double-whammy since the person looks weak, approachable and gentle. Other party is also weak and attached to this approachable person hence, is somewhat powerless. When everything is over, the victim is damaged much more deeply. Same person's encounter with a narcissistic person is much more harmless since person with low-esteem will be driven away by the dominant, narcissistic person.
eyelidlessness 6y ago
I agree with your reading. For what it’s worth, my agreement was initially based on personal experience with people who exhibit NPD traits, but I decided to refresh my memory of the DSM criteria. I know the DSM isn’t the only, or even best, resource for diagnosis questions[1]... but of its 9 criteria, 7 are either in whole or in part accommodating to low self esteem and the kinds of things described in this article. I may be biased by the article’s prose (and by the site itself), but I get the sense that this is a diagnostic motivated to associate general expressions of victimhood (including the more visible expressions of trauma and oppression alluded to in the article) with harmful and manipulative expressions of victimhood that are plenty common in NPD (and certainly BPD). I’m not qualified to draw that conclusion in a meaningfully scientific way, but I’m certainly skeptical that there’s a distinction in this classification that warrants distinction. And I think the harm it could do if adopted is pretty significant. [1]: From personal experience, I likely wouldn’t have been diagnosed ADHD without being prepared with some creativity.

by tremon 6y ago

bayindirh 6y ago

In my experience narcissistic traits start with a normalish personality appearance with a bit overconfidence, then it reveals itself. TIV is a more soft, hurt presentation with silent/passive strategies to damage someone. It's more silent, slower and harder to stop if your self esteem is also low. This makes it a double-whammy since the person looks weak, approachable and gentle. Other party is also weak and attached to this approachable person hence, is somewhat powerless. When everything is over, the victim is damaged much more deeply. Same person's encounter with a narcissistic person is much more harmless since person with low-esteem will be driven away by the dominant, narcissistic person.

eyelidlessness 6y ago

I agree with your reading. For what it’s worth, my agreement was initially based on personal experience with people who exhibit NPD traits, but I decided to refresh my memory of the DSM criteria. I know the DSM isn’t the only, or even best, resource for diagnosis questions[1]... but of its 9 criteria, 7 are either in whole or in part accommodating to low self esteem and the kinds of things described in this article. I may be biased by the article’s prose (and by the site itself), but I get the sense that this is a diagnostic motivated to associate general expressions of victimhood (including the more visible expressions of trauma and oppression alluded to in the article) with harmful and manipulative expressions of victimhood that are plenty common in NPD (and certainly BPD). I’m not qualified to draw that conclusion in a meaningfully scientific way, but I’m certainly skeptical that there’s a distinction in this classification that warrants distinction. And I think the harm it could do if adopted is pretty significant. [1]: From personal experience, I likely wouldn’t have been diagnosed ADHD without being prepared with some creativity.