4 ms·

This is answered quite clearly in the article - because he's well connected. Largely that means people with money, but influence doesn't hurt either. He cut the

This is answered quite clearly in the article - because he's well connected. Largely that means people with money, but influence doesn't hurt either. He cut the line as a VIP. Is that ethically wrong? Probably. Is it new? Not even remotely.

ardy42 6y ago
> This is answered quite clearly in the article - because he's well connected. Largely that means people with money, but influence doesn't hurt either. He cut the line as a VIP. > Is that ethically wrong? Probably. Is it new? Not even remotely. The story here is not that corruption is "new." The story is that there were a total of 108 doses of this treatment allocated to Washington, and one of them went to someone with self-admittedly "very mild symptoms," and had a history of reckless behavior to boot. That rare treatment might have been able to save someone's life, but it instead went to someone who didn't need it and probably didn't deserve it. It's worth noting that this instance corruption happened and who was involved, so maybe someday something can be done about it or this sort of thing more generally. It's really weird: whenever there's a story like this, people seem to climb over each other for the opportunity to note that corruption wasn't invented yesterday, like they're making some kind of important point.
- mlyle 6y ago
  > and one of them went to someone with self-admittedly "very mild symptoms," In fairness, the monoclonal antibodies have been shown to be ineffective when given by the point symptoms are severe. To save any lives, you'll need to give them to people with mild to moderate symptoms but significant risk factors. e.g. "...Casirivimab and imdevimab are not authorized for patients who are hospitalized due to COVID-19 or require oxygen therapy due to COVID-19. A benefit of casirivimab and imdevimab treatment has not been shown in patients hospitalized due to COVID-19. Monoclonal antibodies, such as casirivimab and imdevimab, may be associated with worse clinical outcomes when administered to hospitalized patients with COVID-19 requiring high flow oxygen or mechanical ventilation...." https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/coronavirus-covid-19-update-fda-authorizes-monoclonal-antibodies-treatment-covid-19 https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/coronavi... Of course, this really sucks, because there's nowhere near enough to give to everyone who's high risk and has early COVID, while there might eventually be enough to give to people with severe COVID.
- rufus_foreman 6y ago
  >> and had a history of reckless behavior to boot If there were a vaccine for AIDS, who should get it first, the sober person in a monogamous relationship or the IV drug user having unprotected sex?
  - ardy42 6y ago
    > If there were a vaccine for AIDS, who should get it first, the sober person in a monogamous relationship or the IV drug user having unprotected sex? Giuliani didn't get a vaccine, he got treatment for an active infection. This is more like: you have one dose of an AIDS cure. Do you give it to the IV drug user who has unprotected sex with strangers at weekly orgies, or do you give it to the 10 year old kid who got it through a blood transfusion?
    - rufus_foreman 6y ago
      OK so do you give the treatment to the 10 year old kid who has a 0.000% chance of dying or the 76 year old who has a 5% chance of dying?
      - ardy42 6y ago
        > OK so do you give the treatment to the 10 year old kid who has a 0.000% chance of dying or the 76 year old who has a 5% chance of dying? You're jumping all over the place with your contrived hypotheticals. Are we still talking about AIDS? Yeah, Giuliani is 76 years old, but he behaved recklessly and there are other old people who didn't. If we're contriving hypotheticals, why should he get it an not some elderly nurse that came back from retirement to help treat COVID patients [1]? He got it because he was connected, and there was probably someone who had more need or was more deserving who didn't get it because of him. [1] That is a thing: https://globalnews.ca/news/7481581/texas-nurse-covid-teacher-death/ https://globalnews.ca/news/7481581/texas-nurse-covid-teacher...: "A 70-year-old nurse who gave up her retirement to train a new generation of front-line workers for the pandemic has died, after contracting COVID-19 in north Texas."
        6y ago

ardy42 6y ago

> This is answered quite clearly in the article - because he's well connected. Largely that means people with money, but influence doesn't hurt either. He cut the line as a VIP. > Is that ethically wrong? Probably. Is it new? Not even remotely. The story here is not that corruption is "new." The story is that there were a total of 108 doses of this treatment allocated to Washington, and one of them went to someone with self-admittedly "very mild symptoms," and had a history of reckless behavior to boot. That rare treatment might have been able to save someone's life, but it instead went to someone who didn't need it and probably didn't deserve it. It's worth noting that this instance corruption happened and who was involved, so maybe someday something can be done about it or this sort of thing more generally. It's really weird: whenever there's a story like this, people seem to climb over each other for the opportunity to note that corruption wasn't invented yesterday, like they're making some kind of important point.

mlyle 6y ago
> and one of them went to someone with self-admittedly "very mild symptoms," In fairness, the monoclonal antibodies have been shown to be ineffective when given by the point symptoms are severe. To save any lives, you'll need to give them to people with mild to moderate symptoms but significant risk factors. e.g. "...Casirivimab and imdevimab are not authorized for patients who are hospitalized due to COVID-19 or require oxygen therapy due to COVID-19. A benefit of casirivimab and imdevimab treatment has not been shown in patients hospitalized due to COVID-19. Monoclonal antibodies, such as casirivimab and imdevimab, may be associated with worse clinical outcomes when administered to hospitalized patients with COVID-19 requiring high flow oxygen or mechanical ventilation...." https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/coronavirus-covid-19-update-fda-authorizes-monoclonal-antibodies-treatment-covid-19 https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/coronavi... Of course, this really sucks, because there's nowhere near enough to give to everyone who's high risk and has early COVID, while there might eventually be enough to give to people with severe COVID.
rufus_foreman 6y ago
>> and had a history of reckless behavior to boot If there were a vaccine for AIDS, who should get it first, the sober person in a monogamous relationship or the IV drug user having unprotected sex?
- ardy42 6y ago
  > If there were a vaccine for AIDS, who should get it first, the sober person in a monogamous relationship or the IV drug user having unprotected sex? Giuliani didn't get a vaccine, he got treatment for an active infection. This is more like: you have one dose of an AIDS cure. Do you give it to the IV drug user who has unprotected sex with strangers at weekly orgies, or do you give it to the 10 year old kid who got it through a blood transfusion?
  - rufus_foreman 6y ago
    OK so do you give the treatment to the 10 year old kid who has a 0.000% chance of dying or the 76 year old who has a 5% chance of dying?
    - ardy42 6y ago
      > OK so do you give the treatment to the 10 year old kid who has a 0.000% chance of dying or the 76 year old who has a 5% chance of dying? You're jumping all over the place with your contrived hypotheticals. Are we still talking about AIDS? Yeah, Giuliani is 76 years old, but he behaved recklessly and there are other old people who didn't. If we're contriving hypotheticals, why should he get it an not some elderly nurse that came back from retirement to help treat COVID patients [1]? He got it because he was connected, and there was probably someone who had more need or was more deserving who didn't get it because of him. [1] That is a thing: https://globalnews.ca/news/7481581/texas-nurse-covid-teacher-death/ https://globalnews.ca/news/7481581/texas-nurse-covid-teacher...: "A 70-year-old nurse who gave up her retirement to train a new generation of front-line workers for the pandemic has died, after contracting COVID-19 in north Texas."
      - 6y ago