7 ms·

Our society has plenty of Elon Musks. Their being snuffed out by a academic system designed to churn out people can repeat "the correct answer". Heterodox think

by nbardy 6y ago

Our society has plenty of Elon Musks. Their being snuffed out by a academic system designed to churn out people can repeat "the correct answer". Heterodox thinking is a liability not an asset in Academia now. Along with the fact that most people don't even have the option to take risk with the massive increase of cost of housing. Our society has been designed to squeeze out cash flow and it's smothering our creatives.

throwaway0a5e 6y ago
>Along with the fact that most people don't even have the option to take risk with the massive increase of cost of housing. This just means people won't be taking risks in places like SF. There's plenty of cheap housing out there. Just not in places where the market is driven up by supply constraints and money printers. And before anyone says "hurr durr, nobody wants to live in BFE Alabama" I'm talking about places like Buffalo, Hartford and Atlanta.
- jjk166 6y ago
  You need decently large populations of risk takers living in reasonably close proximity to create an environment like silicon valley. There are plenty of places that have low cost of living, but as soon as you create that environment, the costs of living will skyrocket. Further, while costs may be lower than is SF, costs are rising nearly everywhere faster than inflation. For example in Cleveland the median home price was a mere $18k in 2008, in 2016 it was $40k, it's currently $110k. Buffalo went from $95k in 2016 to $180k now, hartford from $100k to $190k, and atlanta from $200k to $350k. Cost of living is of course more complicated than just median home price but you get the idea.
  - bobthepanda 6y ago
    Nitpick: 2008 after the worst housing crisis in generations is not a reasonable baseline, that is the floor.
    - jjk166 6y ago
      2016 is the baseline in my comment. In Cleveland the median home price increased by 122% in the 8 years from 2008 to 2016, then increased 175% in the past 4 years.
warrenq 6y ago
Correction. Our Society has plenty of people who think they are Elon Musk
6gvONxR4sf7o 6y ago
It's weird, most of my personality traits that were liabilities going through school have become massive assets in the workforce. I only hung onto those traits through sheer stubbornness, despite the school system's continuous efforts to stamp them out.
- giantg2 6y ago
  I'm stubborn too. I find my traits are still working against me. Neither bosses nor professors like their mistakes being called out. And it seems being well networked or making a good impression is more important than actual work or results (you're better off with the abilities to build junk and sell junk, than with the abilities to build good stuff and sell nothing)
  - 6gvONxR4sf7o 6y ago
    Oh yeah stubbornness isn’t one of the traits I meant as good. I only meant that stubbornness is all that allowed me to keep certain good traits from being stamped out. It can just as easily (and in my case also sometimes has) prevented some bad traits from being stamped out. So I need to consciously go way overboard with “I could just as well be wrong” to balance out my natural stubbornness.
    - giantg2 6y ago
      I wasn't talking about my stubbornness being a good trait. It's hurt more than helped, of that I'm sure. The traits that hurt me in school still hurt me today. Like not being afraid to voice a minority opinion. Or correcting the boss/professor. Or having a strong adherence to the rules/policies and holding people/institutions to their word. Thinking outside the box or being more independent.
ta988 6y ago
Yes and now you have academics getting MBAs to get administrative positions in universities.
TRcontrarian 6y ago
Hi Eric
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
intended 6y ago
Academia isn’t snuffing anything out. 1) American school education, and college education is amazing. ( if you can afford it). Talk to immigrant parents From other countries for a contra point. Crushing the soul of students isn’t fully installed in America, yet (which brings us to point 2) 2) It’s the economy. At some point, the American economy stopped working as well for blue collar roles as paths to middle class incomes. The new path required white collar credibility. Humans naturally optimized for this. Which brings us to The fundamental conflict for American education, that gets distorted depending on how you enter the discussion. 3) the American liberal arts system, produced great intellectual output, for an economy where you could pursue both intellectual limits and get a decent paying job. The number of people entering were small, and you could lavish your attention on those pursuits. It does not work for a majority of America customers/students who simply want credibility when it comes to entering paths to social mobility, and are not interested in a life of intellectual pursuit. Look, colleges and schools have different problems, but for businesses, a degree has become the basic filter, where it was never meant to be. Moocs simply don’t have the credibility to fill in the gap, and you can’t make a github or deviantart for roles which don’t have a standardized output.
- bumby 6y ago
  >the American liberal arts system Related to your second and third points, I think there is at least some case that the U.S. has moved away from the idea of liberal arts schooling towards being more vocationally minded. The intent, going back as far as the mid-1800s with the Morrill Act, was specifically intended to help serve a new growing economy. If you ask, I bet more people look at college as a way to get a job than to learn to appreciate and contribute to culture
  - nine_zeros 6y ago
    Contributing to culture ship has long sailed away with the extreme capitalistic society of ours. If there was any kind of cushion (specifically with healthcare), non-vocational education would make sense. But with our current society, life would be futile without real world white collar skills.
ska 6y ago
> being snuffed out by a academic system designed to churn out People have been making this argument since the 1800s, but it doesn't seem to have much solid evidence.
bamboozled 6y ago
I think the other thing is retirement, I'd live a much more radical existence and take business risks if I didn't have to worry about being homeless when I'm 60 if things don't work out. Maybe these things are related because the CEO too has the same concerns. We don't live in a society that favors innovation, we live in a society that's cutthroat.
pii 6y ago
h e t e r o d o x

by nbardy 6y ago

throwaway0a5e 6y ago

>Along with the fact that most people don't even have the option to take risk with the massive increase of cost of housing. This just means people won't be taking risks in places like SF. There's plenty of cheap housing out there. Just not in places where the market is driven up by supply constraints and money printers. And before anyone says "hurr durr, nobody wants to live in BFE Alabama" I'm talking about places like Buffalo, Hartford and Atlanta.

jjk166 6y ago
You need decently large populations of risk takers living in reasonably close proximity to create an environment like silicon valley. There are plenty of places that have low cost of living, but as soon as you create that environment, the costs of living will skyrocket. Further, while costs may be lower than is SF, costs are rising nearly everywhere faster than inflation. For example in Cleveland the median home price was a mere $18k in 2008, in 2016 it was $40k, it's currently $110k. Buffalo went from $95k in 2016 to $180k now, hartford from $100k to $190k, and atlanta from $200k to $350k. Cost of living is of course more complicated than just median home price but you get the idea.
- bobthepanda 6y ago
  Nitpick: 2008 after the worst housing crisis in generations is not a reasonable baseline, that is the floor.
  - jjk166 6y ago
    2016 is the baseline in my comment. In Cleveland the median home price increased by 122% in the 8 years from 2008 to 2016, then increased 175% in the past 4 years.

warrenq 6y ago

Correction. Our Society has plenty of people who think they are Elon Musk

6gvONxR4sf7o 6y ago

It's weird, most of my personality traits that were liabilities going through school have become massive assets in the workforce. I only hung onto those traits through sheer stubbornness, despite the school system's continuous efforts to stamp them out.

giantg2 6y ago
I'm stubborn too. I find my traits are still working against me. Neither bosses nor professors like their mistakes being called out. And it seems being well networked or making a good impression is more important than actual work or results (you're better off with the abilities to build junk and sell junk, than with the abilities to build good stuff and sell nothing)
- 6gvONxR4sf7o 6y ago
  Oh yeah stubbornness isn’t one of the traits I meant as good. I only meant that stubbornness is all that allowed me to keep certain good traits from being stamped out. It can just as easily (and in my case also sometimes has) prevented some bad traits from being stamped out. So I need to consciously go way overboard with “I could just as well be wrong” to balance out my natural stubbornness.
  - giantg2 6y ago
    I wasn't talking about my stubbornness being a good trait. It's hurt more than helped, of that I'm sure. The traits that hurt me in school still hurt me today. Like not being afraid to voice a minority opinion. Or correcting the boss/professor. Or having a strong adherence to the rules/policies and holding people/institutions to their word. Thinking outside the box or being more independent.

ta988 6y ago

Yes and now you have academics getting MBAs to get administrative positions in universities.

TRcontrarian 6y ago

Hi Eric

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

intended 6y ago

Academia isn’t snuffing anything out. 1) American school education, and college education is amazing. ( if you can afford it). Talk to immigrant parents From other countries for a contra point. Crushing the soul of students isn’t fully installed in America, yet (which brings us to point 2) 2) It’s the economy. At some point, the American economy stopped working as well for blue collar roles as paths to middle class incomes. The new path required white collar credibility. Humans naturally optimized for this. Which brings us to The fundamental conflict for American education, that gets distorted depending on how you enter the discussion. 3) the American liberal arts system, produced great intellectual output, for an economy where you could pursue both intellectual limits and get a decent paying job. The number of people entering were small, and you could lavish your attention on those pursuits. It does not work for a majority of America customers/students who simply want credibility when it comes to entering paths to social mobility, and are not interested in a life of intellectual pursuit. Look, colleges and schools have different problems, but for businesses, a degree has become the basic filter, where it was never meant to be. Moocs simply don’t have the credibility to fill in the gap, and you can’t make a github or deviantart for roles which don’t have a standardized output.

bumby 6y ago
>the American liberal arts system Related to your second and third points, I think there is at least some case that the U.S. has moved away from the idea of liberal arts schooling towards being more vocationally minded. The intent, going back as far as the mid-1800s with the Morrill Act, was specifically intended to help serve a new growing economy. If you ask, I bet more people look at college as a way to get a job than to learn to appreciate and contribute to culture
- nine_zeros 6y ago
  Contributing to culture ship has long sailed away with the extreme capitalistic society of ours. If there was any kind of cushion (specifically with healthcare), non-vocational education would make sense. But with our current society, life would be futile without real world white collar skills.

ska 6y ago

> being snuffed out by a academic system designed to churn out People have been making this argument since the 1800s, but it doesn't seem to have much solid evidence.

bamboozled 6y ago

I think the other thing is retirement, I'd live a much more radical existence and take business risks if I didn't have to worry about being homeless when I'm 60 if things don't work out. Maybe these things are related because the CEO too has the same concerns. We don't live in a society that favors innovation, we live in a society that's cutthroat.

pii 6y ago

h e t e r o d o x