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So you’re stating the obvious, that there’s a cheaper product out there that’s inferior to what Apple claims of their new headphones, and also opining that Appl

So you’re stating the obvious, that there’s a cheaper product out there that’s inferior to what Apple claims of their new headphones, and also opining that Apple is probably overstating the sound quality of their new headphones ... and that even if they aren’t overstating it, nobody could possibly want or need that kind of quality? Despite the fact that some people are out there paying tens of thousands of dollars for headphones? I don’t know if these will find the market Apple is hoping for, but seriously what is the point of this comment? Just to be negative for negativity’s sake? I’m not trying to be confrontational or dickish—I just don’t get it. Every time Apple launches some new expensive product it’s the same old story, people saying it’s going to be crappy and anyway who would buy it at that ridiculous price? and then it turns out that it’s actually not crappy, and some people buy it and like it a lot. I don’t see why we should expect anything different here.

actuator 6y ago
The way I read their comment, they meant that even though Sony doesn't use the term studio headphones, they probably might be as good as whatever Apple is claiming the sound quality to be. The doubt was on the marketing term and the worth of the actual quality on the price. Airpods don't have the best sound, several rival wireless earphones beat them to that.
- caconym_ 6y ago
  The comment said this: > I doubt it's studio quality but I also doubt that of apple's offering (or the need for such quality). Seems to me that the doubt is on charging $550 for mediocre sound or on whether better sound actually matters, depending on whether the sound turns out to be mediocre or not. That way we can be negative about Apple’s pricey new doodad regardless of whether it’s actually good or not—how convenient! > Airpods don't have the best sound, several rival wireless earphones beat them to that. I have not claimed otherwise and probably never will.
  - brokensegue 6y ago
    Yes. For most people buying studio quality is not a good value proposition. I doubt they will get that quality and in general most people don't notice the difference. Why is being skeptical of a product announcement problematic? Is stone-faced indifference the only acceptable response? Can I also not speculate on a film's quality from its trailer?
    - caconym_ 6y ago
      You can write whatever you want. Face velvet church daisy red. Person man woman camera television. Look mom, no hands! Your comment was just pointless, unfair criticism. You start by pointing out that there exists a cheaper product that is broadly similar to Apple's new competitor. Then you claim that the latter probably won't exceed the quality of the cheaper product, and that even if it does, nobody could possibly want or need to pay the premium attached to that exceedance. So in the end you've put Apple in a box where their new product sucks no matter what, because it's not exactly the same as a product that already exists. That's just obviously not valid, as previously noted—people pay a lot more than $550 for headphones that offer a lot less in the feature department than modern BT over-ear noise-cancellers. If you want to speculate on whether Apple will succeed in pushing the market higher in a way that makes sense for their business, that might actually be interesting, but you haven't offered anything nearly that substantive. It's just vague negativity of the kind that seeps out of the internet's pores whenever Apple releases something new, and it's usually wrong.
manuelabeledo 6y ago
Well, Apple has had obvious flops over the years, specifically because the price didn't match the features. The HomePod, for instance. > there’s a cheaper product out there that’s inferior to what Apple claims of their new headphones If your claim is that Apple made a product using expensive and tough materials, more expensive than, say, Sony's counterpart, and thus that is better, you may be half-right. But if you claim that Apple made a product that sounds better than Bose or Sony's counterparts, and has better ANC, that is not verifiable, at least not until there are in-depth reviews out there confirming it. What we know now is that Apple did not include support for high quality audio codecs. That itself is quite a red flag.
- caconym_ 6y ago
  > Well, Apple has had obvious flops over the years, specifically because the price didn't match the features. The HomePod, for instance. I would not argue with this and in fact I specifically addressed the does-the-market-actually-exist concern in my comment. > But if you claim that Apple made a product that sounds better than Bose or Sony's counterparts, and has better ANC, that is not verifiable, at least not until there are in-depth reviews out there confirming it. I don’t claim any such thing. The point of my comment is that the parent comment implied that there is no real difference, then said that even if there is a difference who cares because does anybody really need better sound anyway? So my point is, what is the point of that comment? What is it bringing to this discussion, suggesting that Apple’s new headphones may be overpriced wrt. their sound quality, and if not then they’re overpriced anyway? Good sound is something some people care about and will pay for.
  - manuelabeledo 6y ago
    > So my point is, what is the point of that comment? I'm going to take a guess and say that, given the facts, there are reasonable doubts about Apple's offering, compared to other products. Mainly two: noise cancelling is not on par with Bose and Sony, as stated by early reviewers, and the lack of high quality codecs. Functionality-wise then, they may be overpriced. And I would be the first to admit that I like the overall design. I'm an Apple user myself. But I'm skeptical that Apple has achieved the technical proficiency to make some reasonably good sounding, wireless, ANC cans, that compete with either Bose or Sony. I see this more as a luxury product or a status symbol, like Bang & Olufsen. > Good sound is something some people care about and will pay for. The people willing to pay +$500 for a pair of headphones would be even more skeptical than me, I presume.
bengale 6y ago
I don’t frequent car forums but I always wonder if it’s the same over there. Every time a new Mercedes comes out do a bunch of people start complaining about how a Ford is cheaper or something? It’s like people struggle to grasp the idea of a luxury brand.
- freehunter 6y ago
  People struggle with the idea of any luxury brand that also makes mid-range or mass-market products in addition to their unaffordable luxury items. Anecdote: I drive a newer BMW 328i. I live in the northern US where it snows, and it's a rear-wheel drive car so it sat on the lot because no one around here wants to buy an expensive car they have to park half of the year. I bought it certified pre-owned for under $30k, but the MSRP brand new was more like $50k with the package/options mine has. And yet I get so many comments about how it's an impractical car (It's a four door with a full size trunk and gets 30mpg...) and I must be rich for driving a BMW. Oftentimes I get this comment from people who drive pickup trucks that cost $60k-$70k, but that's apparently okay because Ford isn't a "luxury brand". I got my "luxury car" for less than the average purchase price of a new car in the US, and I still get comments about how it's so expensive and I must be rich and I've had family tell me not to drive it to family events because it makes people feel like I'm showing off. Because when they think BMW, they think "fuck that's an expensive car" but it's not. BMW makes expensive cars, yes, but mine was not. Heck I was looking at replacing my SUV and the base-model Chevy Blazer costs more than my BMW. But also yes, I've frequented some Toyota forums for my SUV and I've seen a lot of comments when someone wants to discuss their Lexus because "it's just a Toyota that costs $10k more!".
  - D2187645 6y ago
    BMW used price drop like rock, 2015 328i are about 18k.

actuator 6y ago

The way I read their comment, they meant that even though Sony doesn't use the term studio headphones, they probably might be as good as whatever Apple is claiming the sound quality to be. The doubt was on the marketing term and the worth of the actual quality on the price. Airpods don't have the best sound, several rival wireless earphones beat them to that.

caconym_ 6y ago
The comment said this: > I doubt it's studio quality but I also doubt that of apple's offering (or the need for such quality). Seems to me that the doubt is on charging $550 for mediocre sound or on whether better sound actually matters, depending on whether the sound turns out to be mediocre or not. That way we can be negative about Apple’s pricey new doodad regardless of whether it’s actually good or not—how convenient! > Airpods don't have the best sound, several rival wireless earphones beat them to that. I have not claimed otherwise and probably never will.
- brokensegue 6y ago
  Yes. For most people buying studio quality is not a good value proposition. I doubt they will get that quality and in general most people don't notice the difference. Why is being skeptical of a product announcement problematic? Is stone-faced indifference the only acceptable response? Can I also not speculate on a film's quality from its trailer?
  - caconym_ 6y ago
    You can write whatever you want. Face velvet church daisy red. Person man woman camera television. Look mom, no hands! Your comment was just pointless, unfair criticism. You start by pointing out that there exists a cheaper product that is broadly similar to Apple's new competitor. Then you claim that the latter probably won't exceed the quality of the cheaper product, and that even if it does, nobody could possibly want or need to pay the premium attached to that exceedance. So in the end you've put Apple in a box where their new product sucks no matter what, because it's not exactly the same as a product that already exists. That's just obviously not valid, as previously noted—people pay a lot more than $550 for headphones that offer a lot less in the feature department than modern BT over-ear noise-cancellers. If you want to speculate on whether Apple will succeed in pushing the market higher in a way that makes sense for their business, that might actually be interesting, but you haven't offered anything nearly that substantive. It's just vague negativity of the kind that seeps out of the internet's pores whenever Apple releases something new, and it's usually wrong.

manuelabeledo 6y ago

Well, Apple has had obvious flops over the years, specifically because the price didn't match the features. The HomePod, for instance. > there’s a cheaper product out there that’s inferior to what Apple claims of their new headphones If your claim is that Apple made a product using expensive and tough materials, more expensive than, say, Sony's counterpart, and thus that is better, you may be half-right. But if you claim that Apple made a product that sounds better than Bose or Sony's counterparts, and has better ANC, that is not verifiable, at least not until there are in-depth reviews out there confirming it. What we know now is that Apple did not include support for high quality audio codecs. That itself is quite a red flag.

caconym_ 6y ago
> Well, Apple has had obvious flops over the years, specifically because the price didn't match the features. The HomePod, for instance. I would not argue with this and in fact I specifically addressed the does-the-market-actually-exist concern in my comment. > But if you claim that Apple made a product that sounds better than Bose or Sony's counterparts, and has better ANC, that is not verifiable, at least not until there are in-depth reviews out there confirming it. I don’t claim any such thing. The point of my comment is that the parent comment implied that there is no real difference, then said that even if there is a difference who cares because does anybody really need better sound anyway? So my point is, what is the point of that comment? What is it bringing to this discussion, suggesting that Apple’s new headphones may be overpriced wrt. their sound quality, and if not then they’re overpriced anyway? Good sound is something some people care about and will pay for.
- manuelabeledo 6y ago
  > So my point is, what is the point of that comment? I'm going to take a guess and say that, given the facts, there are reasonable doubts about Apple's offering, compared to other products. Mainly two: noise cancelling is not on par with Bose and Sony, as stated by early reviewers, and the lack of high quality codecs. Functionality-wise then, they may be overpriced. And I would be the first to admit that I like the overall design. I'm an Apple user myself. But I'm skeptical that Apple has achieved the technical proficiency to make some reasonably good sounding, wireless, ANC cans, that compete with either Bose or Sony. I see this more as a luxury product or a status symbol, like Bang & Olufsen. > Good sound is something some people care about and will pay for. The people willing to pay +$500 for a pair of headphones would be even more skeptical than me, I presume.

bengale 6y ago

I don’t frequent car forums but I always wonder if it’s the same over there. Every time a new Mercedes comes out do a bunch of people start complaining about how a Ford is cheaper or something? It’s like people struggle to grasp the idea of a luxury brand.

freehunter 6y ago
People struggle with the idea of any luxury brand that also makes mid-range or mass-market products in addition to their unaffordable luxury items. Anecdote: I drive a newer BMW 328i. I live in the northern US where it snows, and it's a rear-wheel drive car so it sat on the lot because no one around here wants to buy an expensive car they have to park half of the year. I bought it certified pre-owned for under $30k, but the MSRP brand new was more like $50k with the package/options mine has. And yet I get so many comments about how it's an impractical car (It's a four door with a full size trunk and gets 30mpg...) and I must be rich for driving a BMW. Oftentimes I get this comment from people who drive pickup trucks that cost $60k-$70k, but that's apparently okay because Ford isn't a "luxury brand". I got my "luxury car" for less than the average purchase price of a new car in the US, and I still get comments about how it's so expensive and I must be rich and I've had family tell me not to drive it to family events because it makes people feel like I'm showing off. Because when they think BMW, they think "fuck that's an expensive car" but it's not. BMW makes expensive cars, yes, but mine was not. Heck I was looking at replacing my SUV and the base-model Chevy Blazer costs more than my BMW. But also yes, I've frequented some Toyota forums for my SUV and I've seen a lot of comments when someone wants to discuss their Lexus because "it's just a Toyota that costs $10k more!".
- D2187645 6y ago
  BMW used price drop like rock, 2015 328i are about 18k.