6 ms·

Let's not fall into the "whataboutism". Only one "side" has the President of the United States and other key leaders actively advocating for violence.

vxNsr 6y ago
Lol. I have the other side telling me that this all misunderstood and then they’ll point you to the AOCs, Sanders talking about “make lists, lock them up”. They’ll say one side is only talking, but look at Portland, Seattle, DC, etc. there was actual violence. Then the other side will point to Kenosha, which the Trump side will point to as well as proof for them. And they’ll tack on Portland. The truth is very much in the middle.
- omgwtfbyobbq 6y ago
  Do you have a reference to the make lists/lock them up?
  - vxNsr 6y ago
    I think this is what they’re referring to: https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1324807776510595078 https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1324807776510595078 I don’t know though, this was in a WhatsApp group, I remember seeing the conversation about something she said but idk if this was it
    - omgwtfbyobbq 6y ago
      That sounds like take screenshots so we can call them out later, not make lists/lock them up.
- B-Con 6y ago
  I'll second this. Neither side really instances the other side and many buy into the headline narrative that the other half aee basically all extremist nutjobs.
  - cambalache 6y ago
    Third! This is such a weird moment in America history. In one side you have a rag-tag group of: classical conservatives, flyover working class white people,cuban-americans, evangelicals and in the other you have hollywood, the media, the tech companies, their employees, and the colleges. This is not a right/left split, not even a liberal/conservative split, this is a power split (on which the regular people are just cannon-fodder soldiers) between old money and new money.
- standardUser 6y ago
  One faction is actively doing everything they can to undermine our system of government, everyone else is not. That is the divide.
  - k33n 6y ago
    The left is the faction you're describing. Flag my comment, you people love censorship.
  - umvi 6y ago
    Actually both sides fervently believe the other side is doing everything they can to undermine our system of government, and both sides have valid points.
    - joshuamorton 6y ago
      Please do elaborate.
      - umvi 6y ago
        If you identify with the left: Why was election integrity highly questionable in 2016 (Russia, etc.), but not in 2020 after 4 years of Trump? Did something change in those 4 years to make election integrity unquestionable? In fact, election integrity is so unquestionable in 2020 that all the big tech companies are banding together to censor anything that questions election integrity. If you identify with the right: If there is a massive conspiracy to change the outcome of the election, why are not more whistleblowers coming forward? How was it coordinated across states? The truth is that questionable things probably did happen in the 2020 election. The left needs to acknowledge this. The truth is that there isn't enough evidence that these questionable things probably didn't change the outcome of the election. The right needs to acknowledge this. Both sides need to agree on how to improve the 2024 election.
        evgen 6y ago
        I would love for you to provide citations and references for your claims that people questioned the validity of the 2016 election. Many claimed Russian interference, many claimed that James Comey put his thumb on the scale, many claimed that the media provided Trump with a great deal of free media and that the mainstream media were easily whipped up with anti-Clinton stories, many claimed that the sitting administration erred in not publicizing known associations between high-level Trump campaign operatives and Russian agents. NO ONE claimed that the vote was illegitimate. NO ONE claimed that the ballot boxes had been stuffed. The 2016 vote was much closer than 2020 and still the party that lost accepted the result and even if they mumbled about 'not my President' there was no one claiming that the election was stolen. Please stop with the bullshit both-sides claims, it is pathetic.
- doomrobo 6y ago
  Let's make some concrete claims then On partisanship: "The extremist-related murders of 2019 [in the US] were overwhelmingly (90%) linked to right-wing extremists. All but one of the incidents had ties to right-wing extremism...Almost all of the 2019 extremist-related murders were committed by white supremacists" On weapons: "In the past 10 years, 315 of the 435 people (72%) killed in the U.S. by domestic extremists were shot to death." Source: ADL Report on Murder and Extremism in the United States in 2019 (https://www.adl.org/murder-and-extremism-2019 https://www.adl.org/murder-and-extremism-2019)
- FireBeyond 6y ago
  > then they’ll point you to the AOCs, Sanders talking about “make lists, lock them up” I don't see an equivalancy with "find problem people and lock them up", which inherently implies judicial process, and the other side, with Trump saying: "After repeatedly being interrupted by protesters at a campaign rally in Miami, Trump warned he’ll “be a little more violent” next time when addressing protesters. “See the first group, I was nice. ‘Oh, take your time.’ The second group, I was pretty nice. The third group, I’ll be a little more violent. And the fourth group, I’ll say get the hell out of here!”" "Trump told Fox News the next day, “Maybe he should have been roughed up, because it was absolutely disgusting what he was doing. I have a lot of fans, and they were not happy about it. And this was a very obnoxious guy who was a troublemaker who was looking to make trouble.”" "“If you see somebody getting ready to throw a tomato, knock the crap out of them, would you? Seriously. Just knock the hell out of them. I promise you, I will pay for the legal fees. I promise. There won’t be so much of them because the courts agree with us,” he said."
- jfrunyon 6y ago
  Oh, wow. You're right. Talking about "make lists, lock them up" is TOTALLY equivalent to "when the looting starts the shooting starts". Totally.
thegrim33 6y ago
So you have a vague, completely unprovable, argument, based on heresay and reddit posts, whereas I can point to the left rioting in major cities across the country for months on end. You can't deny this. There's thousands of hours of video footage. I fled Seattle a few months ago due to your party's nightly violence. The right is sitting at home and doing absolutely nothing. Even after obvious election tampering the right is STILL doing nothing. Only the left can point at the people doing literally nothing, as you spit in their face and torch American cities, and accuse them of violence.
- k33n 6y ago
  The left is suffering from mass hysteria on a level never before seen.
- macintux 6y ago
  > Even after obvious election tampering That's the problem. The only tampering that seems obvious to me is the years-long efforts to limit voting rights, and at the moment the desperate attempts to invalidate mail-in ballots. We can't agree on basic facts; how can we agree on remediations?
- compiler-guy 6y ago
  If the election tampering were obvious, the Trump appointed judges would have accepted the cases and ruled that way. This election was roughly the same as any other us election in terms of fairness and all the rest. Probably better.
- Jotra7 6y ago
  Fled Seattle? Give me break. What's it like being afraid of boogeymen and shadows? Seems exhausting.
fennecfoxen 6y ago
Complaints about "whataboutism" are a pretty poor way to excuse the set of problems that you are actually positioned to help solve.
k33n 6y ago
Aren't democrats constantly calling for (and committing violence) against their political opponents? Didn't see any red hats out with antifa when they were hitting people over the head with bike locks all summer. Also Cynthia Johnson literally called for Democrat "soldiers" to "make Trump supporters pay".
- standardUser 6y ago
  That kind of hyperbole is both a huge part of the problem and, to me, impossible to espouse without being willfully obtuse.
  - k33n 6y ago
    I love watching my posts get insta-flagged by the far left, which absolutely detests freedom of speech. Terrible people. Sad.
- dang 6y ago
  Hey, could you please stop posting flamewar comments to HN? We ban accounts that do that, and I don't want to ban you (especially a 10-year-old account!) but you've been breaking the site guidelines repeatedly, and we need you to stop. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and sticking to the rules, we'd be grateful.

vxNsr 6y ago

Lol. I have the other side telling me that this all misunderstood and then they’ll point you to the AOCs, Sanders talking about “make lists, lock them up”. They’ll say one side is only talking, but look at Portland, Seattle, DC, etc. there was actual violence. Then the other side will point to Kenosha, which the Trump side will point to as well as proof for them. And they’ll tack on Portland. The truth is very much in the middle.

omgwtfbyobbq 6y ago
Do you have a reference to the make lists/lock them up?
- vxNsr 6y ago
  I think this is what they’re referring to: https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1324807776510595078 https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1324807776510595078 I don’t know though, this was in a WhatsApp group, I remember seeing the conversation about something she said but idk if this was it
  - omgwtfbyobbq 6y ago
    That sounds like take screenshots so we can call them out later, not make lists/lock them up.
B-Con 6y ago
I'll second this. Neither side really instances the other side and many buy into the headline narrative that the other half aee basically all extremist nutjobs.
- cambalache 6y ago
  Third! This is such a weird moment in America history. In one side you have a rag-tag group of: classical conservatives, flyover working class white people,cuban-americans, evangelicals and in the other you have hollywood, the media, the tech companies, their employees, and the colleges. This is not a right/left split, not even a liberal/conservative split, this is a power split (on which the regular people are just cannon-fodder soldiers) between old money and new money.
standardUser 6y ago
One faction is actively doing everything they can to undermine our system of government, everyone else is not. That is the divide.
- k33n 6y ago
  The left is the faction you're describing. Flag my comment, you people love censorship.
- umvi 6y ago
  Actually both sides fervently believe the other side is doing everything they can to undermine our system of government, and both sides have valid points.
  - joshuamorton 6y ago
    Please do elaborate.
    - umvi 6y ago
      If you identify with the left: Why was election integrity highly questionable in 2016 (Russia, etc.), but not in 2020 after 4 years of Trump? Did something change in those 4 years to make election integrity unquestionable? In fact, election integrity is so unquestionable in 2020 that all the big tech companies are banding together to censor anything that questions election integrity. If you identify with the right: If there is a massive conspiracy to change the outcome of the election, why are not more whistleblowers coming forward? How was it coordinated across states? The truth is that questionable things probably did happen in the 2020 election. The left needs to acknowledge this. The truth is that there isn't enough evidence that these questionable things probably didn't change the outcome of the election. The right needs to acknowledge this. Both sides need to agree on how to improve the 2024 election.
      - evgen 6y ago
        I would love for you to provide citations and references for your claims that people questioned the validity of the 2016 election. Many claimed Russian interference, many claimed that James Comey put his thumb on the scale, many claimed that the media provided Trump with a great deal of free media and that the mainstream media were easily whipped up with anti-Clinton stories, many claimed that the sitting administration erred in not publicizing known associations between high-level Trump campaign operatives and Russian agents. NO ONE claimed that the vote was illegitimate. NO ONE claimed that the ballot boxes had been stuffed. The 2016 vote was much closer than 2020 and still the party that lost accepted the result and even if they mumbled about 'not my President' there was no one claiming that the election was stolen. Please stop with the bullshit both-sides claims, it is pathetic.
doomrobo 6y ago
Let's make some concrete claims then On partisanship: "The extremist-related murders of 2019 [in the US] were overwhelmingly (90%) linked to right-wing extremists. All but one of the incidents had ties to right-wing extremism...Almost all of the 2019 extremist-related murders were committed by white supremacists" On weapons: "In the past 10 years, 315 of the 435 people (72%) killed in the U.S. by domestic extremists were shot to death." Source: ADL Report on Murder and Extremism in the United States in 2019 (https://www.adl.org/murder-and-extremism-2019 https://www.adl.org/murder-and-extremism-2019)
FireBeyond 6y ago
> then they’ll point you to the AOCs, Sanders talking about “make lists, lock them up” I don't see an equivalancy with "find problem people and lock them up", which inherently implies judicial process, and the other side, with Trump saying: "After repeatedly being interrupted by protesters at a campaign rally in Miami, Trump warned he’ll “be a little more violent” next time when addressing protesters. “See the first group, I was nice. ‘Oh, take your time.’ The second group, I was pretty nice. The third group, I’ll be a little more violent. And the fourth group, I’ll say get the hell out of here!”" "Trump told Fox News the next day, “Maybe he should have been roughed up, because it was absolutely disgusting what he was doing. I have a lot of fans, and they were not happy about it. And this was a very obnoxious guy who was a troublemaker who was looking to make trouble.”" "“If you see somebody getting ready to throw a tomato, knock the crap out of them, would you? Seriously. Just knock the hell out of them. I promise you, I will pay for the legal fees. I promise. There won’t be so much of them because the courts agree with us,” he said."
jfrunyon 6y ago
Oh, wow. You're right. Talking about "make lists, lock them up" is TOTALLY equivalent to "when the looting starts the shooting starts". Totally.

thegrim33 6y ago

So you have a vague, completely unprovable, argument, based on heresay and reddit posts, whereas I can point to the left rioting in major cities across the country for months on end. You can't deny this. There's thousands of hours of video footage. I fled Seattle a few months ago due to your party's nightly violence. The right is sitting at home and doing absolutely nothing. Even after obvious election tampering the right is STILL doing nothing. Only the left can point at the people doing literally nothing, as you spit in their face and torch American cities, and accuse them of violence.

k33n 6y ago
The left is suffering from mass hysteria on a level never before seen.
macintux 6y ago
> Even after obvious election tampering That's the problem. The only tampering that seems obvious to me is the years-long efforts to limit voting rights, and at the moment the desperate attempts to invalidate mail-in ballots. We can't agree on basic facts; how can we agree on remediations?
compiler-guy 6y ago
If the election tampering were obvious, the Trump appointed judges would have accepted the cases and ruled that way. This election was roughly the same as any other us election in terms of fairness and all the rest. Probably better.
Jotra7 6y ago
Fled Seattle? Give me break. What's it like being afraid of boogeymen and shadows? Seems exhausting.

fennecfoxen 6y ago

Complaints about "whataboutism" are a pretty poor way to excuse the set of problems that you are actually positioned to help solve.

k33n 6y ago

Aren't democrats constantly calling for (and committing violence) against their political opponents? Didn't see any red hats out with antifa when they were hitting people over the head with bike locks all summer. Also Cynthia Johnson literally called for Democrat "soldiers" to "make Trump supporters pay".

standardUser 6y ago
That kind of hyperbole is both a huge part of the problem and, to me, impossible to espouse without being willfully obtuse.
- k33n 6y ago
  I love watching my posts get insta-flagged by the far left, which absolutely detests freedom of speech. Terrible people. Sad.
dang 6y ago
Hey, could you please stop posting flamewar comments to HN? We ban accounts that do that, and I don't want to ban you (especially a 10-year-old account!) but you've been breaking the site guidelines repeatedly, and we need you to stop. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and sticking to the rules, we'd be grateful.