4 ms·

Can I just say that I appreciate this trend of the last few years where opensource projects and organizations start collecting real data on who their users are

Can I just say that I appreciate this trend of the last few years where opensource projects and organizations start collecting real data on who their users are and how they interact with them? I see it a lot in the Clojure community as well, as with various other communities (such as Emacs). Not only does it provide the people behind the projects better guidance, it also gives me a better idea how my own usage and opinions relate to the wider community. Having said that, one thing I found remarkable from the results of this survey is the proficiency in ELISP. A sizable fraction of the respondents feel proficient enough to write their own packages, a trait which I have yet to find someone in real life for (and I know more than a dozen emacs users). I can’t help but think there must be quite some selection bias going on in the respondents of this survey. :)

NateEag 6y ago
FWIW, I don't think of myself as a Lisp programmer, but I still answered that as "able to write my own packages" because I have. Writing a basic package really isn't that difficult.
- pmiller2 6y ago
  +1 to this. I have literally never published a package for emacs, but my init.el could theoretically be one, if I thought anybody else would care or find it useful.
roenxi 6y ago
> start collecting real data on who their users are This is a survey of r/emacs. There isn't a strong reason to believe this is reflective of Emacs' actual user base. Who are these people who feel a need to participate in a community based on their text editor? That religion stuff was normally meant as a joke.
- quadrifoliate 6y ago
  > Who are these people who feel a need to participate in a community based on their text editor? Eh, guilty as charged. Why do people participate in a community based on anything? Because they are passionate about it. There are detailed communities for every single thing you can think of. People collect matchboxes. There are people who make detailed paintings using Microsoft Excel. Why should Emacs be an exception? And if a survey takes into account people who are passionate about their editor, that's good. Who should it take into account, the people who aren't? That's how you get operating systems that spy upon you all the time and optimize for some silly metric. > That religion stuff was normally meant as a joke. Just because someone makes a joke about it does not mean there cannot be an actual community of grown-ups who treat each other with respect around it. And the Emacs community I have seen so far is very respectful and welcoming, even for things like evil-mode that unify emacs and vi editing paradigms. I encourage everyone who uses emacs or is interested in it to check out r/emacs and associated communities.
- Barrin92 6y ago
  > Who are these people who feel a need to participate in a community based on their text editor? as a non-religious, fairly pragmatic emacs user I did because getting into emacs was difficult and they've got a lot of good resources. It's quite a huge and idiosyncratic piece of software I wouldn't be surprised if people like I did just use it as a general helpful resource.
- bitwize 6y ago
  Emacs is a very, very deep rabbit-hole. I'm not sure that it would make sense to not find and get together with other Emacs users to compare notes, exchange tips, and swap stories with. When you stop to consider that back in the 80s and 90s, many pieces of software -- frickin' WordStar -- had their own user groups, even without benefit of the internet to connect them all, what else would you expect?
- slightwinder 6y ago
  In the first place all communitys around a specific software are about solving technical probles and discussing usage of this software. Second: emacs is not an editor, it's a platform with text as it's primary interface. It's similar to webbrowsers. So by it's nature there are many usage cases and technical problems to discuss with emacs. Thus, the community us quite vibrant for it's small size. Third: Religion will always be where people gather long enough.
m463 6y ago
I think writing in lisp is a sort of an acquired taste. Its sort of like learning to drink coffee black. Sorry if this is a heretical thing to say, but I think if there was a python-based emacs that people might be adding more extensive capabilities. I know I would. Instead I seem to fumble my way through elisp.

NateEag 6y ago

FWIW, I don't think of myself as a Lisp programmer, but I still answered that as "able to write my own packages" because I have. Writing a basic package really isn't that difficult.

pmiller2 6y ago
+1 to this. I have literally never published a package for emacs, but my init.el could theoretically be one, if I thought anybody else would care or find it useful.

roenxi 6y ago

> start collecting real data on who their users are This is a survey of r/emacs. There isn't a strong reason to believe this is reflective of Emacs' actual user base. Who are these people who feel a need to participate in a community based on their text editor? That religion stuff was normally meant as a joke.

quadrifoliate 6y ago
> Who are these people who feel a need to participate in a community based on their text editor? Eh, guilty as charged. Why do people participate in a community based on anything? Because they are passionate about it. There are detailed communities for every single thing you can think of. People collect matchboxes. There are people who make detailed paintings using Microsoft Excel. Why should Emacs be an exception? And if a survey takes into account people who are passionate about their editor, that's good. Who should it take into account, the people who aren't? That's how you get operating systems that spy upon you all the time and optimize for some silly metric. > That religion stuff was normally meant as a joke. Just because someone makes a joke about it does not mean there cannot be an actual community of grown-ups who treat each other with respect around it. And the Emacs community I have seen so far is very respectful and welcoming, even for things like evil-mode that unify emacs and vi editing paradigms. I encourage everyone who uses emacs or is interested in it to check out r/emacs and associated communities.
Barrin92 6y ago
> Who are these people who feel a need to participate in a community based on their text editor? as a non-religious, fairly pragmatic emacs user I did because getting into emacs was difficult and they've got a lot of good resources. It's quite a huge and idiosyncratic piece of software I wouldn't be surprised if people like I did just use it as a general helpful resource.
bitwize 6y ago
Emacs is a very, very deep rabbit-hole. I'm not sure that it would make sense to not find and get together with other Emacs users to compare notes, exchange tips, and swap stories with. When you stop to consider that back in the 80s and 90s, many pieces of software -- frickin' WordStar -- had their own user groups, even without benefit of the internet to connect them all, what else would you expect?
slightwinder 6y ago
In the first place all communitys around a specific software are about solving technical probles and discussing usage of this software. Second: emacs is not an editor, it's a platform with text as it's primary interface. It's similar to webbrowsers. So by it's nature there are many usage cases and technical problems to discuss with emacs. Thus, the community us quite vibrant for it's small size. Third: Religion will always be where people gather long enough.

m463 6y ago

I think writing in lisp is a sort of an acquired taste. Its sort of like learning to drink coffee black. Sorry if this is a heretical thing to say, but I think if there was a python-based emacs that people might be adding more extensive capabilities. I know I would. Instead I seem to fumble my way through elisp.