3 ms·

Can you explain what you mean please? How does a doctor/hospital/insurer benefit from putting Covid-19 on the death certificate?

by tobib 6y ago

tastyfreeze 6y ago
There is a financial incentive for hospitals to mark Medicare patients as covid-19. Even more so if they get put on a ventilator. That doesn't mean that hospitals are abusing it. My assumption any time money is involved is that somebody will abuse the system for profit. https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/hospital-payments-and-the-covid-19-death-count/ https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/hospital-payments-and-the-...
- omegaworks 6y ago
  They'd be taking a pretty big risk by doing that. Not only is venting a patient extremely dangerous (50% chance you're never coming off that vent), you can lose your license, face prison time and get fined as least as much as you defrauded Medicare.
bacondude3 6y ago
It's pretty well-established fact that hospitals benefit financially by taking COVID-19 patients. For example, see this source: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/04/24/fact-check-medicare-hospitals-paid-more-covid-19-patients-coronavirus/3000638001/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/04/24/fac...
- jessaustin 6y ago
  Oh yeah hospitals all benefited so much from having to postpone expensive well-compensated elective surgeries for months, after which many of the heart, cancer, etc. patients were just dead so it wasn't so much a postponement as a cancellation. Their CFOs were turning cartwheels. Q people are really tying themselves in knots trying to explain away the excess deaths. (Hint: this goofy argument doesn't work either.)
  - bacondude3 6y ago
    I didn't say hospitals haven't undergone financial hardship due to COVID-19. In fact, the reason for the extra funding is precisely to alleviate the stress under which hospitals have been for the past ~year. All I said was that hospitals receive extra funding from the government for taking in COVID-19 patients, relative to "normal" patients. This is indisputable and I was not making a broader point. Don't try to lump me into a group such as QANON based on something I didn't say.
    - jessaustin 6y ago
      At this time your comment still says "It's pretty well-established fact that hospitals benefit financially by taking COVID-19 patients." Those hospitals that didn't take covid patients didn't delay as many surgeries for as many weeks. Every heart bypass is worth more than ten covid deaths have even been rumored (falsely) to be worth. This is a pointless argument that harms public health, and those who wish to distinguish themselves from Q shouldn't make it.
      - bacondude3 6y ago
        I honestly don't get what you're trying to accomplish here. The original question was this: "How does a doctor/hospital/insurer benefit from putting Covid-19 on the death certificate?" My read of this question is that the person was unaware of the extra funding made available to hospitals taking COVID-19 patients. Therefore, I gave a link to a USA Today article which explained the facts. I didn't say that there aren't ways for hospitals to make more money than they get by caring for COVID-19 patients. My only point, which I'll reiterate, is that the government provides additional funding to hospitals that take COVID-19 patients. I haven't indicated whether I think that's good or bad, and I haven't indicated whether I think the additional funding has been abused or not. I just gave information about government funding of hospitals to somebody who asked a question about the subject. > ten covid deaths have even been rumored (falsely) to be worth Is there a problem with the USA Today article I posted? If the numbers are wrong, I'll be happy to correct it. > This is a pointless argument that harms public health, and those who wish to distinguish themselves from Q shouldn't make it. I haven't made an argument, and I haven't harmed public health. You're still reading things I didn't write and then making assumptions about me with no basis. Please stop. Slow down, reread everything I've written. Then reply here without fighting windmills so we can converse.
jb775 6y ago
A hospital gets paid $13,000 extra (per patient) if a COVID-19 patient is admitted and an extra $39,000 (per patient) if the patient goes on a ventilator. https://www.aha.org/news/headline/2020-12-08-hrsa-distributes-more-covid-19-quality-incentive-payments-nursing-homes https://www.aha.org/news/headline/2020-12-08-hrsa-distribute... https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/cdc-director-acknowledges-hospitals-have-a-monetary-incentive-to-overcount-coronavirus-deaths https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/cdc-director-acknowl...
- hsitz 6y ago
  I think that "extra" claim is actually false and misleading, if you read the Factcheck.org article I linked in my response to same post.
hsitz 6y ago
I'm not sure what post you're responding to said, but I do believe federal Medicare reimbursement is higher for covid-19 care than for similar care that doesn't involve covid-19. It seems there is an additional 20% payment from Medicare when covid-19 is involved (though it seems this must also be much smaller than the "extra $13,000" or "extra $39,000" claims I've seen. I think it may be an extra 20% of those base numbers, not sure). [1] The step many irresponsible people take to suggesting that doctors, hospitals, or insurers are fraudulently marking deaths as covid-19 deaths is whacked, though, in my opinion. The penalties for Medicare fraud are large, including criminal punishment (individuals can go to prison), and I highly doubt anyone is doing it. (Maybe, like voter fraud, there are isolated instances by bad actors, but to believe there is widespread misreporting of covid-19 deaths that substantially affects the overall numbers is crazy.) [1] https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/hospital-payments-and-the-covid-19-death-count/ https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/hospital-payments-and-the-...

Can you explain what you mean please? How does a doctor/hospital/insurer benefit from putting Covid-19 on the death certificate?

by tobib 6y ago

Can you explain what you mean please? How does a doctor/hospital/insurer benefit from putting Covid-19 on the death certificate?

tastyfreeze 6y ago

There is a financial incentive for hospitals to mark Medicare patients as covid-19. Even more so if they get put on a ventilator. That doesn't mean that hospitals are abusing it. My assumption any time money is involved is that somebody will abuse the system for profit. https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/hospital-payments-and-the-covid-19-death-count/ https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/hospital-payments-and-the-...

omegaworks 6y ago
They'd be taking a pretty big risk by doing that. Not only is venting a patient extremely dangerous (50% chance you're never coming off that vent), you can lose your license, face prison time and get fined as least as much as you defrauded Medicare.

bacondude3 6y ago

It's pretty well-established fact that hospitals benefit financially by taking COVID-19 patients. For example, see this source: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/04/24/fact-check-medicare-hospitals-paid-more-covid-19-patients-coronavirus/3000638001/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/04/24/fac...

jessaustin 6y ago
Oh yeah hospitals all benefited so much from having to postpone expensive well-compensated elective surgeries for months, after which many of the heart, cancer, etc. patients were just dead so it wasn't so much a postponement as a cancellation. Their CFOs were turning cartwheels. Q people are really tying themselves in knots trying to explain away the excess deaths. (Hint: this goofy argument doesn't work either.)
- bacondude3 6y ago
  I didn't say hospitals haven't undergone financial hardship due to COVID-19. In fact, the reason for the extra funding is precisely to alleviate the stress under which hospitals have been for the past ~year. All I said was that hospitals receive extra funding from the government for taking in COVID-19 patients, relative to "normal" patients. This is indisputable and I was not making a broader point. Don't try to lump me into a group such as QANON based on something I didn't say.
  - jessaustin 6y ago
    At this time your comment still says "It's pretty well-established fact that hospitals benefit financially by taking COVID-19 patients." Those hospitals that didn't take covid patients didn't delay as many surgeries for as many weeks. Every heart bypass is worth more than ten covid deaths have even been rumored (falsely) to be worth. This is a pointless argument that harms public health, and those who wish to distinguish themselves from Q shouldn't make it.
    - bacondude3 6y ago
      I honestly don't get what you're trying to accomplish here. The original question was this: "How does a doctor/hospital/insurer benefit from putting Covid-19 on the death certificate?" My read of this question is that the person was unaware of the extra funding made available to hospitals taking COVID-19 patients. Therefore, I gave a link to a USA Today article which explained the facts. I didn't say that there aren't ways for hospitals to make more money than they get by caring for COVID-19 patients. My only point, which I'll reiterate, is that the government provides additional funding to hospitals that take COVID-19 patients. I haven't indicated whether I think that's good or bad, and I haven't indicated whether I think the additional funding has been abused or not. I just gave information about government funding of hospitals to somebody who asked a question about the subject. > ten covid deaths have even been rumored (falsely) to be worth Is there a problem with the USA Today article I posted? If the numbers are wrong, I'll be happy to correct it. > This is a pointless argument that harms public health, and those who wish to distinguish themselves from Q shouldn't make it. I haven't made an argument, and I haven't harmed public health. You're still reading things I didn't write and then making assumptions about me with no basis. Please stop. Slow down, reread everything I've written. Then reply here without fighting windmills so we can converse.

jb775 6y ago

A hospital gets paid $13,000 extra (per patient) if a COVID-19 patient is admitted and an extra $39,000 (per patient) if the patient goes on a ventilator. https://www.aha.org/news/headline/2020-12-08-hrsa-distributes-more-covid-19-quality-incentive-payments-nursing-homes https://www.aha.org/news/headline/2020-12-08-hrsa-distribute... https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/cdc-director-acknowledges-hospitals-have-a-monetary-incentive-to-overcount-coronavirus-deaths https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/cdc-director-acknowl...

hsitz 6y ago
I think that "extra" claim is actually false and misleading, if you read the Factcheck.org article I linked in my response to same post.

hsitz 6y ago

I'm not sure what post you're responding to said, but I do believe federal Medicare reimbursement is higher for covid-19 care than for similar care that doesn't involve covid-19. It seems there is an additional 20% payment from Medicare when covid-19 is involved (though it seems this must also be much smaller than the "extra $13,000" or "extra $39,000" claims I've seen. I think it may be an extra 20% of those base numbers, not sure). [1] The step many irresponsible people take to suggesting that doctors, hospitals, or insurers are fraudulently marking deaths as covid-19 deaths is whacked, though, in my opinion. The penalties for Medicare fraud are large, including criminal punishment (individuals can go to prison), and I highly doubt anyone is doing it. (Maybe, like voter fraud, there are isolated instances by bad actors, but to believe there is widespread misreporting of covid-19 deaths that substantially affects the overall numbers is crazy.) [1] https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/hospital-payments-and-the-covid-19-death-count/ https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/hospital-payments-and-the-...