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I didn't says decision and action can't have real consequences. Every action will have its consequences. Forcing other to wear mask has its consequences too.

by matz1 6y ago

Shared404 6y ago
> Forcing other to wear mask has its consequences too. Like lower death rates and being able to reopen everything more completely and earlier?
- matz1 6y ago
  Decision to open has nothing to do mask. Its politics. I never support the lockdown in the first place, regardless of mask. And whether mask actually help with the pandemic, its still inconclusive.
  - Shared404 6y ago
    >Decision to open has nothing to do mask. Its politics. Decisively false. Masks influence pandemic influences lockdown. > And whether mask actually help with the pandemic, its still inconclusive. Do you have a credible source for that?
    - matz1 6y ago
      https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817 https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817
      - Shared404 6y ago
        > no assessment of whether masks could decrease disease transmission from mask wearers to others. Still need a source. I wasn't asking for a source on if they protect the wearer, I was asking for a source for "whether mask actually help with the pandemic"
ardy42 6y ago
> Forcing other to wear mask has its consequences too. As you've said before, people like you would be forced to wear something you think is uncomfortable. I'd even be forced to play the world's smallest violin for you. The thing is, you have to weigh those consequences (ideally non selfishly), not just assert they exist. So, one the one hand, you have minor inconvenience and intolerable oppression of having to think of others for even a second. On the other hand, you have hundreds of thousands of avoidable deaths and the economic toll of a poorly-managed pandemic. I don't know, seems like a tough call. /s
- matz1 6y ago
  You dismissed my concern as "minor inconvenience". I acknowledge that for you its minor but for me its major inconvenience. Its not clear that thousand of deaths will be avoided if everyone wear mask. I agree that it is poorly managed pandemic, that is the decision to do lockdown.
  - ardy42 6y ago
    > You dismissed my concern as "minor inconvenience". I acknowledge that for you its minor but for me its major inconvenience. I did, because your concern is something that should be dismissed. The hypothetical drunk driver I mentioned earlier almost certainly has similar rationalizations for his irresponsible behavior, too. But no one is swayed by his insistence that not driving drunk would have caused "major inconvenience" to him. Refusing to wear a mask in this environment is like deciding to drive drunk. Don't be like a drunk driver, be a responsible person.
    - matz1 6y ago
      Likewise don't be suprised when other people can also simply dismissed your concern. No, the different is the risk of not wearing mask way way lower than drunk driving.
      - Shared404 6y ago
        About 1.5 times as many people died of Covid in the last seven days than people who died due to drunk driving in 2016. Drunk driving may be more dangerous to the individual, but not all wearing masks appears to be doing much more damage. For context, the number of covid related deaths over the past week are equivalent to 5.47 times the number of people killed in 9/11. These numbers don't include those who survive but suffer from lasting effects caused by covid. Sources: https://www.cdc.gov/transportationsafety/impaired_driving/impaired-drv_factsheet.html?CDC_AA_refVal=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cdc.gov%2Fmotorvehiclesafety%2Fimpaired_driving%2Fimpaired-drv_factsheet.html https://www.cdc.gov/transportationsafety/impaired_driving/im... https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#cases_deathsinlast7days https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#cases_deathsinlast... Edit: Add Drunk ... 9/11. Edit 2: Change the paragraph about 9/11 to be more respectful. Edit 3: Add comment about lasting effects.

I didn't says decision and action can't have real consequences. Every action will have its consequences. Forcing other to wear mask has its consequences too.

by matz1 6y ago

I didn't says decision and action can't have real consequences. Every action will have its consequences. Forcing other to wear mask has its consequences too.

Shared404 6y ago

> Forcing other to wear mask has its consequences too. Like lower death rates and being able to reopen everything more completely and earlier?

matz1 6y ago
Decision to open has nothing to do mask. Its politics. I never support the lockdown in the first place, regardless of mask. And whether mask actually help with the pandemic, its still inconclusive.
- Shared404 6y ago
  >Decision to open has nothing to do mask. Its politics. Decisively false. Masks influence pandemic influences lockdown. > And whether mask actually help with the pandemic, its still inconclusive. Do you have a credible source for that?
  - matz1 6y ago
    https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817 https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817
    - Shared404 6y ago
      > no assessment of whether masks could decrease disease transmission from mask wearers to others. Still need a source. I wasn't asking for a source on if they protect the wearer, I was asking for a source for "whether mask actually help with the pandemic"

ardy42 6y ago

> Forcing other to wear mask has its consequences too. As you've said before, people like you would be forced to wear something you think is uncomfortable. I'd even be forced to play the world's smallest violin for you. The thing is, you have to weigh those consequences (ideally non selfishly), not just assert they exist. So, one the one hand, you have minor inconvenience and intolerable oppression of having to think of others for even a second. On the other hand, you have hundreds of thousands of avoidable deaths and the economic toll of a poorly-managed pandemic. I don't know, seems like a tough call. /s

matz1 6y ago
You dismissed my concern as "minor inconvenience". I acknowledge that for you its minor but for me its major inconvenience. Its not clear that thousand of deaths will be avoided if everyone wear mask. I agree that it is poorly managed pandemic, that is the decision to do lockdown.
- ardy42 6y ago
  > You dismissed my concern as "minor inconvenience". I acknowledge that for you its minor but for me its major inconvenience. I did, because your concern is something that should be dismissed. The hypothetical drunk driver I mentioned earlier almost certainly has similar rationalizations for his irresponsible behavior, too. But no one is swayed by his insistence that not driving drunk would have caused "major inconvenience" to him. Refusing to wear a mask in this environment is like deciding to drive drunk. Don't be like a drunk driver, be a responsible person.
  - matz1 6y ago
    Likewise don't be suprised when other people can also simply dismissed your concern. No, the different is the risk of not wearing mask way way lower than drunk driving.
    - Shared404 6y ago
      About 1.5 times as many people died of Covid in the last seven days than people who died due to drunk driving in 2016. Drunk driving may be more dangerous to the individual, but not all wearing masks appears to be doing much more damage. For context, the number of covid related deaths over the past week are equivalent to 5.47 times the number of people killed in 9/11. These numbers don't include those who survive but suffer from lasting effects caused by covid. Sources: https://www.cdc.gov/transportationsafety/impaired_driving/impaired-drv_factsheet.html?CDC_AA_refVal=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cdc.gov%2Fmotorvehiclesafety%2Fimpaired_driving%2Fimpaired-drv_factsheet.html https://www.cdc.gov/transportationsafety/impaired_driving/im... https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#cases_deathsinlast7days https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#cases_deathsinlast... Edit: Add Drunk ... 9/11. Edit 2: Change the paragraph about 9/11 to be more respectful. Edit 3: Add comment about lasting effects.