6 ms·

Endangered Firefox, the State of Mozilla

46 points by geogra4 6y ago

PaulHoule 6y ago
If the EU wanted to make a difference on privacy, fully funding the Firefox browser would be an inexpensive way for Europe to "buy in" to big tech and maintain some alternative to Google for a web browser engine -- think of Airbus buying the A220 from Bombardier and Montréal.
- geogra4 6y ago
  The big monopolies where there are increasingly no viable non-us alternatives are mobile os and browser engines.
- gtf21 6y ago
  I'd never thought of this but it strikes me as a really interesting idea. It's really important to retain a well funded, OSS, citizen-oriented browser since the web is a crucial technology now. A foundation funded by the EU (without a political link) would be a great idea -- hopefully lots of other institutions would also provide funding but you'd need a big hitter as well.
- toyg 6y ago
  It’s a good idea but the problem is the skill build-up. Mozilla development and HQ would have to be relocated to EU shores.
- dzonga 6y ago
  a lot of gvts, could easily and should fund Firefox. However, the current Mozilla foundation administration is corrupt and overpaid. Losing market share the were they did would cause a CEO to lose his job in 5 months. Hell, a lot of folks on HN could easily be stewards of Firefox and do a better job than the bozos running mozilla.
- pjmlp 6y ago
  Anyone that uses Electron apps contributes to Chrome adoption.
  - bzb6 6y ago
    Mozilla had an alternative to Electron and they dropped it before Electron was born even. Who do we have to blame if not them? Their priorities have always been wrong.
    - pjmlp 6y ago
      Any developers using it, yes that also includes the likes of VSCode. The priorities of anyone that uses Electron are the ones that are wrong, picking developer comfort instead of what is good for users or the Web. Use a daemon with local browser or the OS webwidgets. Yes it is more work that coding against Chrome APIs, but that is the whole point if one cares about the Web in general, otherwise those developers could just update their CVs to ChromeOS developer.
  - CyberDildonics 6y ago
    That doesn't make any sense. Using an electron app isn't the same as someone accessing web sites with chrome.
    - pjmlp 6y ago
      Sure it does, using Electron is picking the easy way of coding against Chrome specific APIs, instead of what Web is capable of across all browsers.
      - toper-centage 6y ago
        What you're saying is not wrong, but that's only about developers. Users have no say in the stack used in an app, so using that app in today's landscape of walled Gardens makes no difference in terms of chrome's dominance.
4bpp 6y ago
I always wonder why Firefox Mobile is so unpopular. Isn't the internet basically unusable without an ad blocker (which they say none of the other mobile browsers support) nowadays? Are the 3.something percent desktop Firefox such a refusenik demographic that they don't browse the internet on their phones at all, or do the mobile Chrome forks have some advantage I am unaware of?
- Tagbert 6y ago
  Firefox is not the default browser on mobile OSs. 99% of users don’t change the default. Most people don’t know that this is possible, desirable, or an issue.
  - eppp 6y ago
    Even if you do, does it actually change that much? You cant actually stop the os on mobile from using its default browser for most of it's tasks. Firefox on iOS is basically a reskin of safari if I am reading it correctly.
    - Mediterraneo10 6y ago
      > You cant actually stop the os on mobile from using its default browser for most of it's tasks. On Android, the only thing that the default browser ever opens for is captive portal detection. Otherwise, all links from apps like Signal or OSMAnd open in Firefox. Granted, I am running Lineage OS. Does a phone with Google Play Services installed override Firefox for Android to use the preinstalled web browser instead?
      - storedbox 6y ago
        I've got firefox as my default on Oxygen OS. Don't remember the last time chrome was opened on my phone--by me or by other software. Firefox is even handles the tabs embedded in other apps.
      - ajfjrbfbf 6y ago
        I don't know, I disabled Chrome long ago to make sure it doesn't do shady stuff in background.
backing 6y ago
> Mozilla gets hundred of millions of dollars in 2019 > Mozilla is endangered Pick one.
- 2Gkashmiri 6y ago
  nah. when you have a ceo who wants to price match other ceos in the industry when they dont have money to pay the developers, that has to be decided. my question. why does firefox need any sort of corporate overlordship? is having a skeleton crew to handle payroll, organise some events not enough ? bureaucracy kills stuff and here you see its best example
- klardotsh 6y ago
  If I get $100,000 a year and spend $90,000 a year, my wellbeing is clearly endangered. Mozilla is in a vaguely similar ballpark, with of course different numbers.
etempleton 6y ago
I am likely truly ignorant here, but I find it a bit staggering that Mozilla is able to spend the amount of money that they do on a pretty narrow set of mature products and services; all of which but one makes essentially zero dollars. a few tips from from no one: 1. Rewrite the Mozilla mission statement. I read that and have no idea what your organization does. Mission statements seem like corporate naval gazing, but if it is honest and well written it keeps everyone focused on what you are working towards. 2. Refocus on Firefox R&D and core technologies - Firefox needs to be the best browser. It is the thing that makes the company money and makes it recognizable to the lay person. You will never be able to outspend Google, Microsoft, and Apple, but they are always going to have more competing priorities pulling their best engineers away and causing political infighting about what should be crammed into the browser. Mozilla does not have to have any of that. 3. Invest more in Thunderbird the application and develop Thunderbird the privacy focus email service for independent professionals and small businesses. This comes across a bit negative, but it is because I love Firefox and have loved many other Mozilla products in the past. I very much would like to see Mozilla succeed and create more products that I can love.
- weare138 6y ago
  4. Quit giving the CEO millions of dollars in bonuses.

46 points by geogra4 6y ago

If the EU wanted to make a difference on privacy, fully funding the Firefox browser would be an inexpensive way for Europe to "buy in" to big tech and maintain some alternative to Google for a web browser engine -- think of Airbus buying the A220 from Bombardier and Montréal.

geogra4 6y ago
The big monopolies where there are increasingly no viable non-us alternatives are mobile os and browser engines.
gtf21 6y ago
I'd never thought of this but it strikes me as a really interesting idea. It's really important to retain a well funded, OSS, citizen-oriented browser since the web is a crucial technology now. A foundation funded by the EU (without a political link) would be a great idea -- hopefully lots of other institutions would also provide funding but you'd need a big hitter as well.
toyg 6y ago
It’s a good idea but the problem is the skill build-up. Mozilla development and HQ would have to be relocated to EU shores.
dzonga 6y ago
a lot of gvts, could easily and should fund Firefox. However, the current Mozilla foundation administration is corrupt and overpaid. Losing market share the were they did would cause a CEO to lose his job in 5 months. Hell, a lot of folks on HN could easily be stewards of Firefox and do a better job than the bozos running mozilla.
pjmlp 6y ago
Anyone that uses Electron apps contributes to Chrome adoption.
- bzb6 6y ago
  Mozilla had an alternative to Electron and they dropped it before Electron was born even. Who do we have to blame if not them? Their priorities have always been wrong.
  - pjmlp 6y ago
    Any developers using it, yes that also includes the likes of VSCode. The priorities of anyone that uses Electron are the ones that are wrong, picking developer comfort instead of what is good for users or the Web. Use a daemon with local browser or the OS webwidgets. Yes it is more work that coding against Chrome APIs, but that is the whole point if one cares about the Web in general, otherwise those developers could just update their CVs to ChromeOS developer.
- CyberDildonics 6y ago
  That doesn't make any sense. Using an electron app isn't the same as someone accessing web sites with chrome.
  - pjmlp 6y ago
    Sure it does, using Electron is picking the easy way of coding against Chrome specific APIs, instead of what Web is capable of across all browsers.
    - toper-centage 6y ago
      What you're saying is not wrong, but that's only about developers. Users have no say in the stack used in an app, so using that app in today's landscape of walled Gardens makes no difference in terms of chrome's dominance.

4bpp 6y ago

I always wonder why Firefox Mobile is so unpopular. Isn't the internet basically unusable without an ad blocker (which they say none of the other mobile browsers support) nowadays? Are the 3.something percent desktop Firefox such a refusenik demographic that they don't browse the internet on their phones at all, or do the mobile Chrome forks have some advantage I am unaware of?

Tagbert 6y ago
Firefox is not the default browser on mobile OSs. 99% of users don’t change the default. Most people don’t know that this is possible, desirable, or an issue.
- eppp 6y ago
  Even if you do, does it actually change that much? You cant actually stop the os on mobile from using its default browser for most of it's tasks. Firefox on iOS is basically a reskin of safari if I am reading it correctly.
  - Mediterraneo10 6y ago
    > You cant actually stop the os on mobile from using its default browser for most of it's tasks. On Android, the only thing that the default browser ever opens for is captive portal detection. Otherwise, all links from apps like Signal or OSMAnd open in Firefox. Granted, I am running Lineage OS. Does a phone with Google Play Services installed override Firefox for Android to use the preinstalled web browser instead?
    - storedbox 6y ago
      I've got firefox as my default on Oxygen OS. Don't remember the last time chrome was opened on my phone--by me or by other software. Firefox is even handles the tabs embedded in other apps.
    - ajfjrbfbf 6y ago
      I don't know, I disabled Chrome long ago to make sure it doesn't do shady stuff in background.

backing 6y ago

> Mozilla gets hundred of millions of dollars in 2019 > Mozilla is endangered Pick one.

2Gkashmiri 6y ago
nah. when you have a ceo who wants to price match other ceos in the industry when they dont have money to pay the developers, that has to be decided. my question. why does firefox need any sort of corporate overlordship? is having a skeleton crew to handle payroll, organise some events not enough ? bureaucracy kills stuff and here you see its best example
klardotsh 6y ago
If I get $100,000 a year and spend $90,000 a year, my wellbeing is clearly endangered. Mozilla is in a vaguely similar ballpark, with of course different numbers.

etempleton 6y ago

I am likely truly ignorant here, but I find it a bit staggering that Mozilla is able to spend the amount of money that they do on a pretty narrow set of mature products and services; all of which but one makes essentially zero dollars. a few tips from from no one: 1. Rewrite the Mozilla mission statement. I read that and have no idea what your organization does. Mission statements seem like corporate naval gazing, but if it is honest and well written it keeps everyone focused on what you are working towards. 2. Refocus on Firefox R&D and core technologies - Firefox needs to be the best browser. It is the thing that makes the company money and makes it recognizable to the lay person. You will never be able to outspend Google, Microsoft, and Apple, but they are always going to have more competing priorities pulling their best engineers away and causing political infighting about what should be crammed into the browser. Mozilla does not have to have any of that. 3. Invest more in Thunderbird the application and develop Thunderbird the privacy focus email service for independent professionals and small businesses. This comes across a bit negative, but it is because I love Firefox and have loved many other Mozilla products in the past. I very much would like to see Mozilla succeed and create more products that I can love.

weare138 6y ago
4. Quit giving the CEO millions of dollars in bonuses.