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So, in the spirit of HN I'd like to foster a challenge. I challenge the people of HN to come up with a startup to challenge the status quo. How about a startup

by iuguy 15y ago

So, in the spirit of HN I'd like to foster a challenge. I challenge the people of HN to come up with a startup to challenge the status quo. How about a startup that could expose this in an easily consumable way by the public? What about a startup that makes government corruption irrelevant? Lets put our money where our mouth is. Is there money to be made from benefiting the social good? Is there a way we can bring people together with an app or service that can bring about an end to all of this? On HN I see some of the most intelligent people that have ever lived. If we can't come up with a solution, then who can?

18pfsmt 15y ago
I've banged my head over a similar idea for a while, and I have failed to figure out a viable monetization strategy that won't compromise such a service eventually. The best I've come up with is that it must start at bottom and move up. From local communities and the governments that manage them, the power could be slowly drained away from the federal level (and even the state) eventually leading to a more decentralized system that is less susceptible to corruption (which obviously requires constant vigilance on the part of the local communities).
- iuguy 15y ago
  So what about a site that allows local communities to organise and co-ordinate? Your big problem would be astroturfing, but if you did it right, it would be as simple for them to arrange for 'Lets get rid of taxes on oil firms" as "Lets get the garbage taken out properly in the xth district in y area", then to link them together. I think the key thing is to disrupt the lobby structure. If we can do that as well as MP3 downloads disrupted the RIAA then we win.
  - pyre 15y ago
    What about a social-network-like site where people communicate directly with their elected officials? This would need someway to make sure that the politician was actually looking at the site and not just the delegating it to subordinates. Having a direct line to these politicians (that cuts past all of the subordinates that answer email, snail mail, etc) is one of the strengths of lobby groups.
    - 18pfsmt 15y ago
      There is one, but I can't remember the name of it right now. I spent a week going through lots of it to see what kind of activity, but there was very little. On top of that, there were lots of people just barking non-nonsensical and/ or derisive remarks at the various federal politicians; and, absolutely zero participation from any of the politicians themselves. This is why I suggested to start in a small community first. In order to keep it relevant to people that live in that community, the only thing that made sense was to authenticate users via post cards (with OTP passcodes) sent to an address within a zipcode (In my town they send out a community news page with my water bill). My thought was to keep it to short messages realted to only municipal maintenance issues and try to build from there. Funding it would be the biggest obstacle in my mind, so if anyone has specific ideas there, that'd be great.
    - iuguy 15y ago
      You might want to look at http://www.theyworkforyou.com http://www.theyworkforyou.com and the other mysociety tools as a starting point.
eli 15y ago
I don't think it's a problem of awareness. NPR just now aired a brief story on the Comcast lobbyist.
pstack 15y ago
I know it's not quite the same thing, but wasn't there a "startup" of sorts awhile back that focused on exposing documented evidence of different levels of corporate and government corruption? I can't remember what it was called, but I'm pretty sure the guy behind it had to flee the country and was charged with several counts of rape and a lot of the people he was trying to expose the information to about their own government said that they wanted him executed. Anyway, there are certainly already-existing entities that serve the public good, but government corruption isn't irrelevant as long as there is government corruption. You can benefit social good all you like, but how exactly is it going to wholly displace the existence, expense, and function of a government office or committee? The FDA example. Or the Goldman Sachs example. How are you going to displace the need for the FDA to exist or for the SEC and the Treasury to exist? Or the need for the military industrial complex? These are all functions that seemingly need to exist and be performed for the good of the people. The problem is that they require oversight. The public needs to be aware of the corruption and given the power to do something about it and it seems we either don't or won't. (And I'm part of that group, because if I knew how to change it, I would). It is so massive. So complex. So layered. And so corrupt. I really almost can't expect someone busy trying to keep a roof over their head and their children clothed and educated to somehow be aware of many of these corruptions, much less have a way to change it (beyond the trivialities of voting, which mostly seems to just serve us as a way to make us feel better about ourselves). When we have lots of regulation, we're told that the solution is to deregulate and then industries are singularly corrupt. When we don't have enough regulation, we're told the solution is to regulate. Then the regulator positions are staffed with people from the companies being regulated and corruption is there. If there are some great solutions, I'm all ears. :)
- eru 15y ago
  > How are you going to displace the need for the FDA to exist or for the SEC and the Treasury to exist? Talk to some minimal-government libertarians for some ideas. A (quite conservative) method to get rid of the FDA would be outsourcing that function to the EU, or perhaps push it down to the states. > Or the need for the military industrial complex? You can make it much smaller, if your government follows an isolationist foreign policy. I'm not saying those are good ideas---just that it's possible.

by iuguy 15y ago

18pfsmt 15y ago

I've banged my head over a similar idea for a while, and I have failed to figure out a viable monetization strategy that won't compromise such a service eventually. The best I've come up with is that it must start at bottom and move up. From local communities and the governments that manage them, the power could be slowly drained away from the federal level (and even the state) eventually leading to a more decentralized system that is less susceptible to corruption (which obviously requires constant vigilance on the part of the local communities).

iuguy 15y ago
So what about a site that allows local communities to organise and co-ordinate? Your big problem would be astroturfing, but if you did it right, it would be as simple for them to arrange for 'Lets get rid of taxes on oil firms" as "Lets get the garbage taken out properly in the xth district in y area", then to link them together. I think the key thing is to disrupt the lobby structure. If we can do that as well as MP3 downloads disrupted the RIAA then we win.
- pyre 15y ago
  What about a social-network-like site where people communicate directly with their elected officials? This would need someway to make sure that the politician was actually looking at the site and not just the delegating it to subordinates. Having a direct line to these politicians (that cuts past all of the subordinates that answer email, snail mail, etc) is one of the strengths of lobby groups.
  - 18pfsmt 15y ago
    There is one, but I can't remember the name of it right now. I spent a week going through lots of it to see what kind of activity, but there was very little. On top of that, there were lots of people just barking non-nonsensical and/ or derisive remarks at the various federal politicians; and, absolutely zero participation from any of the politicians themselves. This is why I suggested to start in a small community first. In order to keep it relevant to people that live in that community, the only thing that made sense was to authenticate users via post cards (with OTP passcodes) sent to an address within a zipcode (In my town they send out a community news page with my water bill). My thought was to keep it to short messages realted to only municipal maintenance issues and try to build from there. Funding it would be the biggest obstacle in my mind, so if anyone has specific ideas there, that'd be great.
  - iuguy 15y ago
    You might want to look at http://www.theyworkforyou.com http://www.theyworkforyou.com and the other mysociety tools as a starting point.

eli 15y ago

I don't think it's a problem of awareness. NPR just now aired a brief story on the Comcast lobbyist.

pstack 15y ago

I know it's not quite the same thing, but wasn't there a "startup" of sorts awhile back that focused on exposing documented evidence of different levels of corporate and government corruption? I can't remember what it was called, but I'm pretty sure the guy behind it had to flee the country and was charged with several counts of rape and a lot of the people he was trying to expose the information to about their own government said that they wanted him executed. Anyway, there are certainly already-existing entities that serve the public good, but government corruption isn't irrelevant as long as there is government corruption. You can benefit social good all you like, but how exactly is it going to wholly displace the existence, expense, and function of a government office or committee? The FDA example. Or the Goldman Sachs example. How are you going to displace the need for the FDA to exist or for the SEC and the Treasury to exist? Or the need for the military industrial complex? These are all functions that seemingly need to exist and be performed for the good of the people. The problem is that they require oversight. The public needs to be aware of the corruption and given the power to do something about it and it seems we either don't or won't. (And I'm part of that group, because if I knew how to change it, I would). It is so massive. So complex. So layered. And so corrupt. I really almost can't expect someone busy trying to keep a roof over their head and their children clothed and educated to somehow be aware of many of these corruptions, much less have a way to change it (beyond the trivialities of voting, which mostly seems to just serve us as a way to make us feel better about ourselves). When we have lots of regulation, we're told that the solution is to deregulate and then industries are singularly corrupt. When we don't have enough regulation, we're told the solution is to regulate. Then the regulator positions are staffed with people from the companies being regulated and corruption is there. If there are some great solutions, I'm all ears. :)

eru 15y ago
> How are you going to displace the need for the FDA to exist or for the SEC and the Treasury to exist? Talk to some minimal-government libertarians for some ideas. A (quite conservative) method to get rid of the FDA would be outsourcing that function to the EU, or perhaps push it down to the states. > Or the need for the military industrial complex? You can make it much smaller, if your government follows an isolationist foreign policy. I'm not saying those are good ideas---just that it's possible.