4 ms·

Places can change. There's nothing stopping suburbia from becoming more walkable and friendly to the elderly other than choices we made.

by wbl 6y ago

burlesona 6y ago
There's actually a lot stopping it. First and foremost, reams of zoning and other regulations that are not easy to repeal. Second, the entire physical environment poured in concrete which is expensive and difficult to retrofit well. The street patterns of suburbia are hostile to walkability because they intentionally increase the distance between points with poor connectivity and dendritic routing. This is why the majority of suburban areas decline after the first generation of development and never revitalize.
pwinnski 6y ago
Places CAN change, but there is a lot stopping suburbia from becoming more walkable. In the case of American suburbs, places will need to change by basically tearing everything down and rebuilding differently, either a piece at a time or all at once.
- sli 6y ago
  We can't mix together residential and commercial properties in the US (anymore) due to zoning laws, so walkable cities are effectively on life support and are only going to get more and more rare as time goes on. Each time a mixed-use building is demolished, another piece of a walkable city dies that likely won't ever come back. Suburbs and unaffordable metropolises are poised to kill off the ability to live without a car.
  - vonmoltke 6y ago
    > We can't mix together residential and commercial properties in the US (anymore) due to zoning laws You make this statement like there are national zoning laws. Doing exactly this is common in northeastern New Jersey, and the result is pretty dense and walkable suburban areas. That said, much of this is due to momentum; many of the suburbs were platted before car ownership was widespread and the later ones continued similar, familiar patterns.
    - burner831234 6y ago
      Actually the rise of suburbs was subsidized by the federal government. Separately a lot of state and local legislation that is contentious can be copy pasted and sent along by lobbying groups.
knaq 6y ago
"more walkable and friendly to the elderly" are very separate things, usually in conflict. The elderly face disability like arthritis, poor body temperature control, uncertainty about lower leg position or pavement contact, bad vision, bad hearing, confusion, and numerous other troubles. No normal or reasonable amount of "more walkable" is going to work. They need family members who care. The family members need parking spaces. The fewer steps from bedroom to car, the better. A nice goal would be to have less than 50 feet from bedroom to car.
- lostlogin 6y ago
  This is how we got where we are now. Making things more difficult for cars seems to increase the quality of the experience for those not using cars. Making things easier for cars increases the problems cars cause. It’s a huge subsidy that society pays to have cars around. There is a huge cost due to the space dedicated to cars, parking them, driving them and keeping them from killing people.
- astura 6y ago
  Personal mobility devices like walkers, wheelchairs and scooters mix well with pedestrian traffic, not so much with vehicular traffic. My grandma was very feeble at the end of her life and the biggest pain point for her was getting her in and out of the car. If we could get her in her wheelchair and just roll her down the street for brunch, she would have gone out so much more. Instead we had to get her to the car, then pick her up to get into the car, buckle her down, fold up her wheelchair, drive somewhere, then do everything in reverse. Then do it two more times on the way home. She disliked the entire process so much she usually didn't want to bother leaving the house.
- quicklyfrozen 6y ago
  From what I've seen with older relatives, if you're able to stay mobile, you'll stay mobile longer and have a better quality of life. I don't think it's impossible to have housing and shops together and still have parking within a reasonable distance -- for example a town center with parking lots a couple blocks from the main street.
lotsofpulp 6y ago
The very definition of suburbia prevents it from becoming elderly and walking friendly: large lots for houses with garages and multi car wide driveways, 6+ lane road crossings, parking lots spacing everything out. I can’t imagine any elderly person with mobility issues being able to cross any road with more than a 25mph speed limit, especially the main roads that are 4 to 8 lanes wide at intersections with 40mph speed limits.
- lostlogin 6y ago
  In NZ lockdown really changed my perspective. With very little traffic the roads became the footpath and were heavily used by kids on bikes and families walking. Birds became were more numerous and it was very quiet. I’m not sure how you get to this without literally shutting down the country, but that aspect was nice.
  - CalRobert 6y ago
    Arguably the country was shut down by cars decades ago. You experienced it reopening, in a sense. Hate that we call it "closing the street" when we stop letting drivers terrorize people walking on them.
    - nitrogen 6y ago
      Mobility, flexibility of schedule, and portable privacy+storage are far too beneficial to just give up. If there's a problem with the current way those goals are achieved, then we need to solve that, not abandon all our technological progress.
      - giantDinosaur 6y ago
        Ill-health, loneliness, road deaths, pollution, ultra-expensive infrastructure: if 'technological progress' is the city designed around the car, I want none of it.
        6y ago

Places can change. There's nothing stopping suburbia from becoming more walkable and friendly to the elderly other than choices we made.

by wbl 6y ago

Places can change. There's nothing stopping suburbia from becoming more walkable and friendly to the elderly other than choices we made.

burlesona 6y ago

There's actually a lot stopping it. First and foremost, reams of zoning and other regulations that are not easy to repeal. Second, the entire physical environment poured in concrete which is expensive and difficult to retrofit well. The street patterns of suburbia are hostile to walkability because they intentionally increase the distance between points with poor connectivity and dendritic routing. This is why the majority of suburban areas decline after the first generation of development and never revitalize.

pwinnski 6y ago

Places CAN change, but there is a lot stopping suburbia from becoming more walkable. In the case of American suburbs, places will need to change by basically tearing everything down and rebuilding differently, either a piece at a time or all at once.

sli 6y ago
We can't mix together residential and commercial properties in the US (anymore) due to zoning laws, so walkable cities are effectively on life support and are only going to get more and more rare as time goes on. Each time a mixed-use building is demolished, another piece of a walkable city dies that likely won't ever come back. Suburbs and unaffordable metropolises are poised to kill off the ability to live without a car.
- vonmoltke 6y ago
  > We can't mix together residential and commercial properties in the US (anymore) due to zoning laws You make this statement like there are national zoning laws. Doing exactly this is common in northeastern New Jersey, and the result is pretty dense and walkable suburban areas. That said, much of this is due to momentum; many of the suburbs were platted before car ownership was widespread and the later ones continued similar, familiar patterns.
  - burner831234 6y ago
    Actually the rise of suburbs was subsidized by the federal government. Separately a lot of state and local legislation that is contentious can be copy pasted and sent along by lobbying groups.

knaq 6y ago

"more walkable and friendly to the elderly" are very separate things, usually in conflict. The elderly face disability like arthritis, poor body temperature control, uncertainty about lower leg position or pavement contact, bad vision, bad hearing, confusion, and numerous other troubles. No normal or reasonable amount of "more walkable" is going to work. They need family members who care. The family members need parking spaces. The fewer steps from bedroom to car, the better. A nice goal would be to have less than 50 feet from bedroom to car.

lostlogin 6y ago
This is how we got where we are now. Making things more difficult for cars seems to increase the quality of the experience for those not using cars. Making things easier for cars increases the problems cars cause. It’s a huge subsidy that society pays to have cars around. There is a huge cost due to the space dedicated to cars, parking them, driving them and keeping them from killing people.
astura 6y ago
Personal mobility devices like walkers, wheelchairs and scooters mix well with pedestrian traffic, not so much with vehicular traffic. My grandma was very feeble at the end of her life and the biggest pain point for her was getting her in and out of the car. If we could get her in her wheelchair and just roll her down the street for brunch, she would have gone out so much more. Instead we had to get her to the car, then pick her up to get into the car, buckle her down, fold up her wheelchair, drive somewhere, then do everything in reverse. Then do it two more times on the way home. She disliked the entire process so much she usually didn't want to bother leaving the house.
quicklyfrozen 6y ago
From what I've seen with older relatives, if you're able to stay mobile, you'll stay mobile longer and have a better quality of life. I don't think it's impossible to have housing and shops together and still have parking within a reasonable distance -- for example a town center with parking lots a couple blocks from the main street.

lotsofpulp 6y ago

The very definition of suburbia prevents it from becoming elderly and walking friendly: large lots for houses with garages and multi car wide driveways, 6+ lane road crossings, parking lots spacing everything out. I can’t imagine any elderly person with mobility issues being able to cross any road with more than a 25mph speed limit, especially the main roads that are 4 to 8 lanes wide at intersections with 40mph speed limits.

lostlogin 6y ago
In NZ lockdown really changed my perspective. With very little traffic the roads became the footpath and were heavily used by kids on bikes and families walking. Birds became were more numerous and it was very quiet. I’m not sure how you get to this without literally shutting down the country, but that aspect was nice.
- CalRobert 6y ago
  Arguably the country was shut down by cars decades ago. You experienced it reopening, in a sense. Hate that we call it "closing the street" when we stop letting drivers terrorize people walking on them.
  - nitrogen 6y ago
    Mobility, flexibility of schedule, and portable privacy+storage are far too beneficial to just give up. If there's a problem with the current way those goals are achieved, then we need to solve that, not abandon all our technological progress.
    - giantDinosaur 6y ago
      Ill-health, loneliness, road deaths, pollution, ultra-expensive infrastructure: if 'technological progress' is the city designed around the car, I want none of it.
      - 6y ago