5 ms·

Why do people still use sleep? The lowest power saving modes are basically so great these days I can at least a couple of days out of them without any configura

Why do people still use sleep? The lowest power saving modes are basically so great these days I can at least a couple of days out of them without any configuration whatsoever... On Windows many newer laptops don't even use actual "sleep" modes but rather simulate them with lower power active modes. Linux' problems with traditional sleep modes are only going to get worse as a consequence since manufacturers are going to abandon them. I'd stop using them ASAP.

sandworm101 6y ago
Yes. The core reason that linux is horrible in this area is that so few people care about sleep functionality. Sleep was developed when turning on/off a windows computer took minutes (boot, antivirus self-scan, updates to xyz, reboot, scan again etc). A modern linux machine boots in seconds. So the usefulness of sleep/hibernate modes on desktops/laptops has shrunk.
- NikolaeVarius 6y ago
  I dislike having to enter my extremely long decryption password every time I boot. Also, I have no idea how your computer boots in seconds. POST to UEFI is at least 3-5 seconds. Than I have to wait about 5-10 ish seconds after I type my password to decrypt my drive. Than it gets to OS selection screen which takes 3-5 seconds. Then it has to load all services after boot which takes about another 5-10 seconds before things get into a vaguely usable state. This versus 2 seconds to wake.
  - sandworm101 6y ago
    10+10+5=35 seconds, not minutes. As i said, sleep was developed when boot took minutes. So the motivation for this feature has been greatly diminished and is now less of a priority in the linux community.
    - NikolaeVarius 6y ago
      I don't believe you. This is a community that recompiles kernels for imaginary performance increases. Who would forgo practical increases in speed. And when someone says "seconds" the implication is that its at max around 5-9 seconds. I would be pretty pissed if a application that took "seconds" to boot actually took 59 seconds.
      - fileeditview 6y ago
        TBH I think the times of kernel recompiles with your personal settings are long gone. Folks these days just run Ubuntu/Fedora/<pick your distro> and that's it. Also probably most people don't have encrypted HDDs on their home computer, so another 10 seconds you can shave off. My current Ubuntu boots in maybe 10 secs from power button to login. And that includes the 3sec Grub menu pause.
    - AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
      35 seconds is still kinda ridiculous when you consider the ludicrous speed of modern computers. If every cycle of a single core of a 3Ghz processor were a subjective second, then in that 35 seconds the core experiences a subjective 3327 years.
      - xboxnolifes 6y ago
        Half of the 35 seconds in this case is from decrypting a drive and menu screens from having multiples OSs. Removing that and using fast boot BIOS options could easily drop this under 10 seconds.
        sandworm101 6y ago
        And time waiting for the wifi to reconnect. That is an entirely different wait cycle.
        AshamedCaptain 6y ago
        Yes, my desktop usually boots in around 10 seconds. Or at least feels like 10 seconds; no more. In fact it takes more time for it to wake than to boot from full power off, albeit that says more about Linux sleep/wake support than anything else. But my point is that, for most of the time, I just leave it on. It consumes almost the same power sleeping that fully on, at idle.
- Delk 6y ago
  Even if the system starts quickly enough to not matter that much, keeping state still matters. An IDE, any documents that are open in other applications, possible virtual machines etc. are immediately there where you left them after resuming from sleep, but not after a boot. I also find it easier to resume my mental state when things are as I left them without having to bring them up again.
  - kristofferR 6y ago
    Frankly that is one of the major advantages of macOS, it's indispensable for me.
    - Delk 6y ago
      Works For Me(TM) on Linux and Windows 10, but macOS has of course been for a long time known for pretty quick suspend and resume.
      - kristofferR 6y ago
        Most apps on Windows I use at least doesn't have that, I need to reopen apps after a reboot (unless they auto-launch at all boots) and the windows definitively doesn't stay in the same position and have the same contents as before the reboot. I haven't used Linux desktop lately though, but I'm not aware that they had an API for that.
        Delk 6y ago
        Ah, you mean session restoration rather than reliable sleep. You're probably right. Linux desktops environments (or at least some of them) used to have an attempt at something like that, but I think it only worked for applications that made an effort towards it, and I personally haven't even tried to see how or if that works nowadays. Suspend to RAM and hibernation fill that hole for me, although it's admirable if someone has been able to properly solve the problem of restoring the session after a full reboot.
- yongjik 6y ago
  > A modern linux machine boots in seconds. Into a clean screen, without any of the webpages, terminals, and other applications I've been running. Recently upgraded to Ubuntu 20.04 and found out GNOME3 doesn't even support session save. (Seriously, WTF?) So sleep/hibernate is the only thing that allows me to get back to what I was doing.
- godot 6y ago
  This perspective ignores the actual UX, though. Here is a real world scenario that is extremely common. I am using my laptop, say doing random hobby projects, with code open, a few browser tabs open, some terminal tabs, maybe with something running. My kid or spouse need my attention. I close my laptop lid so 1. It keeps all my windows open, 2. No one knocks over my laptop because its lid is open on a couch, 3. I can respond to my kid or spouse without having to shut down, wait for the shutdown process (a few seconds is a year when a kid is waiting for you... and in some cases, it could be a real emergency too). Because my laptop where I run Linux on (Lenovo ideapad 320s) fails 100% of the time when I close the lid to put it to sleep, I simply cannot do this. When I say fail, I mean it hard crashes -- to fix it I'd have to hold the power button for 5 seconds to shut it down fully and reboot. What I ended up doing was configuring it so closing the laptop lid does nothing at all (no sleep, no hibernate, simply turns off screen). This is an OK alternative but anyone who dosn't live alone know that when you close your laptop lid, you have no idea when you're going back to your laptop next. It could be in the next 5 minutes. Or, it could be the start of a series of events (changing diapers, bathing the kid, tantrums, etc.) that keeps you unavailable for the next 4 hours, and then it's bed time and you forget your laptop was still running, and then you go to work the next day, and finally a full 24 hours later you came back to your laptop and you remember that you didn't shut it down 24 hours ago, now it drained up all your battery and closed all your apps anyway. (Real world examples that have happened to me)
pmontra 6y ago
I think sleep means that the RAM is powered. This is vs hibernation, which is RAM saved to disk and everything is shut down.
zelly 6y ago
because I don't want to open my backpack and be greeted by a furnace and 10% battery left

sandworm101 6y ago

Yes. The core reason that linux is horrible in this area is that so few people care about sleep functionality. Sleep was developed when turning on/off a windows computer took minutes (boot, antivirus self-scan, updates to xyz, reboot, scan again etc). A modern linux machine boots in seconds. So the usefulness of sleep/hibernate modes on desktops/laptops has shrunk.

NikolaeVarius 6y ago
I dislike having to enter my extremely long decryption password every time I boot. Also, I have no idea how your computer boots in seconds. POST to UEFI is at least 3-5 seconds. Than I have to wait about 5-10 ish seconds after I type my password to decrypt my drive. Than it gets to OS selection screen which takes 3-5 seconds. Then it has to load all services after boot which takes about another 5-10 seconds before things get into a vaguely usable state. This versus 2 seconds to wake.
- sandworm101 6y ago
  10+10+5=35 seconds, not minutes. As i said, sleep was developed when boot took minutes. So the motivation for this feature has been greatly diminished and is now less of a priority in the linux community.
  - NikolaeVarius 6y ago
    I don't believe you. This is a community that recompiles kernels for imaginary performance increases. Who would forgo practical increases in speed. And when someone says "seconds" the implication is that its at max around 5-9 seconds. I would be pretty pissed if a application that took "seconds" to boot actually took 59 seconds.
    - fileeditview 6y ago
      TBH I think the times of kernel recompiles with your personal settings are long gone. Folks these days just run Ubuntu/Fedora/<pick your distro> and that's it. Also probably most people don't have encrypted HDDs on their home computer, so another 10 seconds you can shave off. My current Ubuntu boots in maybe 10 secs from power button to login. And that includes the 3sec Grub menu pause.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
    35 seconds is still kinda ridiculous when you consider the ludicrous speed of modern computers. If every cycle of a single core of a 3Ghz processor were a subjective second, then in that 35 seconds the core experiences a subjective 3327 years.
    - xboxnolifes 6y ago
      Half of the 35 seconds in this case is from decrypting a drive and menu screens from having multiples OSs. Removing that and using fast boot BIOS options could easily drop this under 10 seconds.
      - sandworm101 6y ago
        And time waiting for the wifi to reconnect. That is an entirely different wait cycle.
      - AshamedCaptain 6y ago
        Yes, my desktop usually boots in around 10 seconds. Or at least feels like 10 seconds; no more. In fact it takes more time for it to wake than to boot from full power off, albeit that says more about Linux sleep/wake support than anything else. But my point is that, for most of the time, I just leave it on. It consumes almost the same power sleeping that fully on, at idle.
Delk 6y ago
Even if the system starts quickly enough to not matter that much, keeping state still matters. An IDE, any documents that are open in other applications, possible virtual machines etc. are immediately there where you left them after resuming from sleep, but not after a boot. I also find it easier to resume my mental state when things are as I left them without having to bring them up again.
- kristofferR 6y ago
  Frankly that is one of the major advantages of macOS, it's indispensable for me.
  - Delk 6y ago
    Works For Me(TM) on Linux and Windows 10, but macOS has of course been for a long time known for pretty quick suspend and resume.
    - kristofferR 6y ago
      Most apps on Windows I use at least doesn't have that, I need to reopen apps after a reboot (unless they auto-launch at all boots) and the windows definitively doesn't stay in the same position and have the same contents as before the reboot. I haven't used Linux desktop lately though, but I'm not aware that they had an API for that.
      - Delk 6y ago
        Ah, you mean session restoration rather than reliable sleep. You're probably right. Linux desktops environments (or at least some of them) used to have an attempt at something like that, but I think it only worked for applications that made an effort towards it, and I personally haven't even tried to see how or if that works nowadays. Suspend to RAM and hibernation fill that hole for me, although it's admirable if someone has been able to properly solve the problem of restoring the session after a full reboot.
yongjik 6y ago
> A modern linux machine boots in seconds. Into a clean screen, without any of the webpages, terminals, and other applications I've been running. Recently upgraded to Ubuntu 20.04 and found out GNOME3 doesn't even support session save. (Seriously, WTF?) So sleep/hibernate is the only thing that allows me to get back to what I was doing.
godot 6y ago
This perspective ignores the actual UX, though. Here is a real world scenario that is extremely common. I am using my laptop, say doing random hobby projects, with code open, a few browser tabs open, some terminal tabs, maybe with something running. My kid or spouse need my attention. I close my laptop lid so 1. It keeps all my windows open, 2. No one knocks over my laptop because its lid is open on a couch, 3. I can respond to my kid or spouse without having to shut down, wait for the shutdown process (a few seconds is a year when a kid is waiting for you... and in some cases, it could be a real emergency too). Because my laptop where I run Linux on (Lenovo ideapad 320s) fails 100% of the time when I close the lid to put it to sleep, I simply cannot do this. When I say fail, I mean it hard crashes -- to fix it I'd have to hold the power button for 5 seconds to shut it down fully and reboot. What I ended up doing was configuring it so closing the laptop lid does nothing at all (no sleep, no hibernate, simply turns off screen). This is an OK alternative but anyone who dosn't live alone know that when you close your laptop lid, you have no idea when you're going back to your laptop next. It could be in the next 5 minutes. Or, it could be the start of a series of events (changing diapers, bathing the kid, tantrums, etc.) that keeps you unavailable for the next 4 hours, and then it's bed time and you forget your laptop was still running, and then you go to work the next day, and finally a full 24 hours later you came back to your laptop and you remember that you didn't shut it down 24 hours ago, now it drained up all your battery and closed all your apps anyway. (Real world examples that have happened to me)

pmontra 6y ago

I think sleep means that the RAM is powered. This is vs hibernation, which is RAM saved to disk and everything is shut down.

zelly 6y ago

because I don't want to open my backpack and be greeted by a furnace and 10% battery left