5 ms·

This ... If the OP does some internet research into this topic they will find articles detailing how almost all [1] non-apple laptop makers build to a single t

by pwg 6y ago

This ... If the OP does some internet research into this topic they will find articles detailing how almost all [1] non-apple laptop makers build to a single target: ms-windows. They also test against a single target: ms-windows. If it works there, they are done. Linux compatibility is not even an afterthought. And as each makers various models all seem to also have slightly different ways to perform sleep/hibernate and subsequent wakeup, the result is that Linux kernel dev's are playing a continuous game of catch-up. One thing I've found is that upgrading the kernel to a later release sometimes fixes the issues (assuming patches were supplied by someone in the interim to fix them). [1] Very few makers have any laptops that ship, from the maker, with Linux preinstalled, the few that do (one or two Dell models, the aftermarket "Linux Laptop" vendors, maybe a sliver of others) will more than likely work properly for sleep/wake. The reason why these work better is because the maker should, in theory, test for Linux compatibility and help fix any bugs (or simply build with compatible chipsets from the outset) since they are selling these with "Linux pre-loaded".

evolve2k 6y ago
Which laptops get this right then? Any of them?
- sigio 6y ago
  Had no issues with my current thinkpad (t480) and previous thinkpads (x240, x220, edge 11)
- cat199 6y ago
  anyone that sells a linux on top; failing that its a crapshoot which mostly depends on developer popularity of that model / devices
- fwsgonzo 6y ago
  I have a Carbon X1 and it works perfectly, including the fingerprint unlock and the touchscreen.
  - smartbit 6y ago
    what version X1 do you have? And which distribution do you run on it?
    - fwsgonzo 6y ago
      I don't know which one it is. I bought it in autumn 2019 and it has a touch screen. I run bog standard Ubuntu 20.04 LTS on it.
- Delk 6y ago
  I'd expect e.g. Ubuntu certified devices [1] to handle it. There are certified laptops from at least Dell and Lenovo, and probably the odd model from other manufacturers. While the certification technically only means the hardware is compatible with Ubuntu, and perhaps only as pre-installed by the OEM, in practice that probably means general Linux compatibility. I have trouble seeing any point in making Ubuntu-specific tweaks to an OEM install, as it's easier to just send only the models with compatible components for certification (or to pick compatible components in the first place, which may be feasible at least for premium laptops). But as a user, you do have to pick your hardware. My ThinkPad X240 has been suspending and resuming reliably for the majority of the last 6 to 7 years. There was a time when the touchpad didn't work after resume without tweaking (in Fedora), which was annoying and surprising and something that IMO shouldn't have happened. But other than that there have been no issues. [1] https://certification.ubuntu.com/ https://certification.ubuntu.com/
- war1025 6y ago
  I've always had good luck with Dell's Inspiron line. Have had three of them now that worked perfectly well. I always pick hibernate over sleep though, so I guess I can't say how sleep works on them.
- sds357 6y ago
  My Thinkpad L440 has never properly been able to use sleep or hibernate modes with Ubuntu, I have to shut down completely.
- dmytton 6y ago
  I have a Star LabTop Mk4 running Manjaro which suspends and resumes without any issues (laptop lid as well as sleep from OS). They build their laptops specifically for Linux and test on a range of major distros. See https://starlabs.systems/ https://starlabs.systems/ and https://starlabs.kb.help/compatibility-reports/ https://starlabs.kb.help/compatibility-reports/
- pferde 6y ago
  I've used two or three HP Elitebooks in past few years, and suspend/resume, as well as hibernation/resume just worked on them. I never even really thought about it, to be honest, I just used it - mostly just suspend - daily. Curiously enough, some of my colleagues which have the same laptop model running Windows, complain that their laptops only wake up about 50% of the time, ever since we had a mandatory upgrade to Windows 10.
danieldk 6y ago
one or two Dell models, the aftermarket "Linux Laptop" vendors, maybe a sliver of others Lenovo also certifies ThinkPads for Linux: https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/solutions/pd031426-linux-for-personal-systems https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/solutions/pd031426-linux-fo... Newer (?) ThinkPads even have a firmware option to switch between the default sleep state and one that is more compatible with Linux.
- lwhalen 6y ago
  Could you tell me more about this firmware option? As a ThinkPad owner/Linux user, I'd be very interested!
  - danieldk 6y ago
    There is a nice blog post that describes this: https://brauner.github.io/2018/09/08/thinkpad-6en-s3.html https://brauner.github.io/2018/09/08/thinkpad-6en-s3.html I recently bought a T14, which also has this option. (It enables S3 sleep.)
    - lwhalen 6y ago
      Thanks very much!
  - q3k 6y ago
    So, PCs can generally either do S3 sleep, or a new fancy 'S0ix' sleep since Haswell & co, and some similar mechanism on AMD machines. S0ix is the new standard for W10 and beyond, in which the operating system attempts to itself shut down as many peripherals as possible, downclock the CPU, shut off unnecessary cores - but stay in ACPI S0. Basically just run normally, but try to be as power efficient as possible, following how mobile phones do things. Its big advantage is that it allows for varying levels of background processing (and eg. network connectivity) that just aren't possible with traditional S3. The downside is that it needs great hardware support within the OS and that it's a complex, system-wide effort to implement (like, needs application cooperation). Linux's S0ix support (via s2idle) is quite mediocre right now. S3 sleep is the same ACPI-driven suspend-to-RAM mode that PCs have been shipping with for decades, in which a complex rube goldberg of DSDT and platform controller pokes ends up making a CPU stop running, having saved its entire state into RAM. The upside of S3 sleep is that it generally works, unless a machine's ACPI DSDT is terribly broken (which still unfortunately happens). The downside is that it's pretty much binary (either you sleep or you don't) and that you can't control what wakes you up. I mean, there's some ACPI mechanisms for it, but they're limited and janky. New Thinkpad BIOSes can let you choose between either exposing old-school S3 via ACPI for non-W10 systems, or enabling S0ix functionality for W10. The default is generally S0ix/s2idle. See: https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/power/states.txt https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/power/states.txt

by pwg 6y ago

evolve2k 6y ago

Which laptops get this right then? Any of them?

sigio 6y ago
Had no issues with my current thinkpad (t480) and previous thinkpads (x240, x220, edge 11)
cat199 6y ago
anyone that sells a linux on top; failing that its a crapshoot which mostly depends on developer popularity of that model / devices
fwsgonzo 6y ago
I have a Carbon X1 and it works perfectly, including the fingerprint unlock and the touchscreen.
- smartbit 6y ago
  what version X1 do you have? And which distribution do you run on it?
  - fwsgonzo 6y ago
    I don't know which one it is. I bought it in autumn 2019 and it has a touch screen. I run bog standard Ubuntu 20.04 LTS on it.
Delk 6y ago
I'd expect e.g. Ubuntu certified devices [1] to handle it. There are certified laptops from at least Dell and Lenovo, and probably the odd model from other manufacturers. While the certification technically only means the hardware is compatible with Ubuntu, and perhaps only as pre-installed by the OEM, in practice that probably means general Linux compatibility. I have trouble seeing any point in making Ubuntu-specific tweaks to an OEM install, as it's easier to just send only the models with compatible components for certification (or to pick compatible components in the first place, which may be feasible at least for premium laptops). But as a user, you do have to pick your hardware. My ThinkPad X240 has been suspending and resuming reliably for the majority of the last 6 to 7 years. There was a time when the touchpad didn't work after resume without tweaking (in Fedora), which was annoying and surprising and something that IMO shouldn't have happened. But other than that there have been no issues. [1] https://certification.ubuntu.com/ https://certification.ubuntu.com/
war1025 6y ago
I've always had good luck with Dell's Inspiron line. Have had three of them now that worked perfectly well. I always pick hibernate over sleep though, so I guess I can't say how sleep works on them.
sds357 6y ago
My Thinkpad L440 has never properly been able to use sleep or hibernate modes with Ubuntu, I have to shut down completely.
dmytton 6y ago
I have a Star LabTop Mk4 running Manjaro which suspends and resumes without any issues (laptop lid as well as sleep from OS). They build their laptops specifically for Linux and test on a range of major distros. See https://starlabs.systems/ https://starlabs.systems/ and https://starlabs.kb.help/compatibility-reports/ https://starlabs.kb.help/compatibility-reports/
pferde 6y ago
I've used two or three HP Elitebooks in past few years, and suspend/resume, as well as hibernation/resume just worked on them. I never even really thought about it, to be honest, I just used it - mostly just suspend - daily. Curiously enough, some of my colleagues which have the same laptop model running Windows, complain that their laptops only wake up about 50% of the time, ever since we had a mandatory upgrade to Windows 10.

danieldk 6y ago

one or two Dell models, the aftermarket "Linux Laptop" vendors, maybe a sliver of others Lenovo also certifies ThinkPads for Linux: https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/solutions/pd031426-linux-for-personal-systems https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/solutions/pd031426-linux-fo... Newer (?) ThinkPads even have a firmware option to switch between the default sleep state and one that is more compatible with Linux.

lwhalen 6y ago
Could you tell me more about this firmware option? As a ThinkPad owner/Linux user, I'd be very interested!
- danieldk 6y ago
  There is a nice blog post that describes this: https://brauner.github.io/2018/09/08/thinkpad-6en-s3.html https://brauner.github.io/2018/09/08/thinkpad-6en-s3.html I recently bought a T14, which also has this option. (It enables S3 sleep.)
  - lwhalen 6y ago
    Thanks very much!
- q3k 6y ago
  So, PCs can generally either do S3 sleep, or a new fancy 'S0ix' sleep since Haswell & co, and some similar mechanism on AMD machines. S0ix is the new standard for W10 and beyond, in which the operating system attempts to itself shut down as many peripherals as possible, downclock the CPU, shut off unnecessary cores - but stay in ACPI S0. Basically just run normally, but try to be as power efficient as possible, following how mobile phones do things. Its big advantage is that it allows for varying levels of background processing (and eg. network connectivity) that just aren't possible with traditional S3. The downside is that it needs great hardware support within the OS and that it's a complex, system-wide effort to implement (like, needs application cooperation). Linux's S0ix support (via s2idle) is quite mediocre right now. S3 sleep is the same ACPI-driven suspend-to-RAM mode that PCs have been shipping with for decades, in which a complex rube goldberg of DSDT and platform controller pokes ends up making a CPU stop running, having saved its entire state into RAM. The upside of S3 sleep is that it generally works, unless a machine's ACPI DSDT is terribly broken (which still unfortunately happens). The downside is that it's pretty much binary (either you sleep or you don't) and that you can't control what wakes you up. I mean, there's some ACPI mechanisms for it, but they're limited and janky. New Thinkpad BIOSes can let you choose between either exposing old-school S3 via ACPI for non-W10 systems, or enabling S0ix functionality for W10. The default is generally S0ix/s2idle. See: https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/power/states.txt https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/power/states.txt