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If there were any such thing as "tier 2 and tier 3 countries" in any broad sense, I'd say that's quite a lazy and disingenuous transition from "only on HN" and

If there were any such thing as "tier 2 and tier 3 countries" in any broad sense, I'd say that's quite a lazy and disingenuous transition from "only on HN" and only something the US cares about, to "outside of the vast bulk of the world's economy". Further I don't think you understand what "significant" marketshare is. Even 10% marketshare is significant, where the actions of that market player is impactful. But Apple is pushing way above that almost everywhere.

pjmlp 6y ago
I bet if we do a demographic IP check that is what most HN logins come from. I surely do, whatever Porsche and Ferrari do have very little repercussions on the automotive market, if you want a comparison.
- bfgoodrich 6y ago
  This circular logic is more disingenuous noise (the userbase of HN is utterly irrelevant given that you're trying to prove your own absurd claim that only HN cares, when clearly the entire developed world cares). How are you not moderated down to transparent by now? [I will tell you why - because the title draws in a certain crowd that is comforted by your nonsense, however fictional it is] Whatever you hope the position of Apple is doesn't correlate with reality. Aside: Ferrari has between 0.01% - 0.1% marketshare in a given year in the richest countries, and that is your example why Apple -- at 20% or so in most of the world's economies -- is irrelevant. That is some perilously embarrassing nonsense. Hyundai, in contrast, has 7% marketshare in the US and is considered a pretty big player.
  - romanoderoma 6y ago
    > Apple -- at 20% or so in most of the world's economies Apple has 17% (and dropping) of the mobile market share in Europe and around 9% in computing. There aren't many other richer economies in the World. Ferrari is worth now more than General Motors and Ford, so market share and net worth are not comparable. Their market share is small because they make a luxury limited edition product. They limit their production capacity to around 10 thousands cars/year (all sold in pre order), Apple is trying to sell as many devices they can. There are no Ferrari Store where you can buy a Ferrari and drive it home half an hour later. It's not a small difference. Last but not least, there is a lot more competition between car manufacturers, even in the most expensive segments, Apple devices are only made by Apple. Hyundai, for example, had a net income of over 3 trillion in 2019, Apple net income is measured in tens of billions.
    - bfgoodrich 6y ago
      This is so intensely boring and stupid. Firstly, you profoundly misunderstood the inclusion of Ferrari, hilariously trying to twist that into an Apple critique. Secondly, Apple is selling as many or more iPhones than ever in Europe (19% in the EU). And Japan. And the US. And Canada. And Australia. And CHINA. And Singapore. And South Korea. Literally every rich area on Earth. Contrasted with pjmlp's "only the US" (actually the HN "bubble"). This has turned into farce. Carry on with the nonsense.
      - romanoderoma 6y ago
        > This is so intensely boring and stupid. It's reality though. > Secondly, Apple is selling as many or more iPhones than ever in Europe Again: it's simply reality The iPhone's market share in Europe fell 17% year-on-year in Q2, according to today's Canalys data. ... That 17% drop in sales saw Apple's share of the European smartphone market fall from 17% to 14.1% during the 12-month period.Aug 12, 2019 12 Aug 2020 - at its peak, Greater China accounted for 25% of Apple's revenue though that share slipped to 17% in the last fiscal year Singapore, South Korea and Australia are rich, bust mostly irrelevant by number. Europe has 700 million citizens, those 3 have less than 80 million citizens combined. We were talking about computing though, in South Korea (the largest of the three) OS X is at 4%. It's 8% in Japan, like in almost any other rich economy.
        bfgoodrich 6y ago
        I guess Apple is done. Just doesn't matter at all. Wrap it up boys. Groan. Alright buddy. "those 3 have less than 80 million citizens combined" Those three combined have a GDP almost double India's. And the rich of India overwhelmingly carry iPhones, as an aside. The rich everywhere carry iPhones. The middle-class everywhere carry iPhones. If you're trying to sell a product or service, worldwide, there's a reason the iPhone is the first-class market.
        romanoderoma 6y ago
        > Groan. Alright buddy. I'm probably too old to be your buddy. Keep calm and read stats. > Those three combined have a GDP almost double India's Italy alone has the same GDP of India. And it's only one of 27 countries in Europe. And not even the richest. Seriously, read the stats The share of Apple in the mobile phone market, across India, in July 2020 was approximately 3.35 percent 96% of a billion people are not buying it and won't in the near future. That was the point.
  - chinesempire 6y ago
    There's a simple metric you are missing: installed base. There are 4 billion active smartphones, Tim Cook said iPhones are ~900 million Let's make it a billion for simplicity. 1 - 3 out of 4 smartphones are not Apple's 2 - Apple makes up 50% of the US market for installed base, it's around 220 million devices, 22% of its global installed base, 5% of the global market. Android is the other 50%, 7% of Android global, 5% of the global market. So Apple is 3 times more reliant on US market than Android. 3 - Apple makes 41% of their revenues in USA International sales accounted for 59 percent of the quarter's revenue.Oct 29, 2020 https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2020/10/apple-reports-fourth-quarter-results/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2020/10/apple-reports-fourth-... So more or less we can say that every iPhone sold in USA is worth 3 times an iPhone sold internationally, out of $100 of revenue 1 iPhone in USA is worth $41 one sold internationally is worth 59/4=~$14.5. That's not in absolute numbers, there are other factors contributing to Apple revenues but it's a good proxy. An iPhone sold in USA generates more revenues overall, being it Apple Store, accessories, laptops, cloud services, music, ... Android market is harder to analyse being more fragmented, but there are a few key points that can be extracted. Only 7% of the global Android market is in USA. Google doesn't make much money from Android, Apple is absolute king of profits here, they are able to extract much more. Largest Android manufacturers are not in USA and that's a reason why in Asia people are switching to locally manufactured devices that can rival with iPhones in term of perceived usefulness at half the price. Apple has a minimal penetration in emerging markets, like for example Africa. We can conclude that what Apple does is still much more relevant in USA and USA is much more relevant for Apple than any other smartphone manufacturer. Ask yourself this question: what would have happened to the market if the M1 was made by Microsoft or Dell/HP/Lenovo? How many more companies would have considered it if it could run Windows out of the box. That's how relevant Apple is in the global market, it's king of profits, it's king of market capitalisation, it makes very good high end devices but as far as the general population is concerned, the M1 won't change much outside of the US.
hesarenu 6y ago
India would be tier 2 or 3. Apple share is less than 5%. Its very rare to see a iphone in the wild.

pjmlp 6y ago

I bet if we do a demographic IP check that is what most HN logins come from. I surely do, whatever Porsche and Ferrari do have very little repercussions on the automotive market, if you want a comparison.

bfgoodrich 6y ago
This circular logic is more disingenuous noise (the userbase of HN is utterly irrelevant given that you're trying to prove your own absurd claim that only HN cares, when clearly the entire developed world cares). How are you not moderated down to transparent by now? [I will tell you why - because the title draws in a certain crowd that is comforted by your nonsense, however fictional it is] Whatever you hope the position of Apple is doesn't correlate with reality. Aside: Ferrari has between 0.01% - 0.1% marketshare in a given year in the richest countries, and that is your example why Apple -- at 20% or so in most of the world's economies -- is irrelevant. That is some perilously embarrassing nonsense. Hyundai, in contrast, has 7% marketshare in the US and is considered a pretty big player.
- romanoderoma 6y ago
  > Apple -- at 20% or so in most of the world's economies Apple has 17% (and dropping) of the mobile market share in Europe and around 9% in computing. There aren't many other richer economies in the World. Ferrari is worth now more than General Motors and Ford, so market share and net worth are not comparable. Their market share is small because they make a luxury limited edition product. They limit their production capacity to around 10 thousands cars/year (all sold in pre order), Apple is trying to sell as many devices they can. There are no Ferrari Store where you can buy a Ferrari and drive it home half an hour later. It's not a small difference. Last but not least, there is a lot more competition between car manufacturers, even in the most expensive segments, Apple devices are only made by Apple. Hyundai, for example, had a net income of over 3 trillion in 2019, Apple net income is measured in tens of billions.
  - bfgoodrich 6y ago
    This is so intensely boring and stupid. Firstly, you profoundly misunderstood the inclusion of Ferrari, hilariously trying to twist that into an Apple critique. Secondly, Apple is selling as many or more iPhones than ever in Europe (19% in the EU). And Japan. And the US. And Canada. And Australia. And CHINA. And Singapore. And South Korea. Literally every rich area on Earth. Contrasted with pjmlp's "only the US" (actually the HN "bubble"). This has turned into farce. Carry on with the nonsense.
    - romanoderoma 6y ago
      > This is so intensely boring and stupid. It's reality though. > Secondly, Apple is selling as many or more iPhones than ever in Europe Again: it's simply reality The iPhone's market share in Europe fell 17% year-on-year in Q2, according to today's Canalys data. ... That 17% drop in sales saw Apple's share of the European smartphone market fall from 17% to 14.1% during the 12-month period.Aug 12, 2019 12 Aug 2020 - at its peak, Greater China accounted for 25% of Apple's revenue though that share slipped to 17% in the last fiscal year Singapore, South Korea and Australia are rich, bust mostly irrelevant by number. Europe has 700 million citizens, those 3 have less than 80 million citizens combined. We were talking about computing though, in South Korea (the largest of the three) OS X is at 4%. It's 8% in Japan, like in almost any other rich economy.
      - bfgoodrich 6y ago
        I guess Apple is done. Just doesn't matter at all. Wrap it up boys. Groan. Alright buddy. "those 3 have less than 80 million citizens combined" Those three combined have a GDP almost double India's. And the rich of India overwhelmingly carry iPhones, as an aside. The rich everywhere carry iPhones. The middle-class everywhere carry iPhones. If you're trying to sell a product or service, worldwide, there's a reason the iPhone is the first-class market.
        romanoderoma 6y ago
        > Groan. Alright buddy. I'm probably too old to be your buddy. Keep calm and read stats. > Those three combined have a GDP almost double India's Italy alone has the same GDP of India. And it's only one of 27 countries in Europe. And not even the richest. Seriously, read the stats The share of Apple in the mobile phone market, across India, in July 2020 was approximately 3.35 percent 96% of a billion people are not buying it and won't in the near future. That was the point.
- chinesempire 6y ago
  There's a simple metric you are missing: installed base. There are 4 billion active smartphones, Tim Cook said iPhones are ~900 million Let's make it a billion for simplicity. 1 - 3 out of 4 smartphones are not Apple's 2 - Apple makes up 50% of the US market for installed base, it's around 220 million devices, 22% of its global installed base, 5% of the global market. Android is the other 50%, 7% of Android global, 5% of the global market. So Apple is 3 times more reliant on US market than Android. 3 - Apple makes 41% of their revenues in USA International sales accounted for 59 percent of the quarter's revenue.Oct 29, 2020 https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2020/10/apple-reports-fourth-quarter-results/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2020/10/apple-reports-fourth-... So more or less we can say that every iPhone sold in USA is worth 3 times an iPhone sold internationally, out of $100 of revenue 1 iPhone in USA is worth $41 one sold internationally is worth 59/4=~$14.5. That's not in absolute numbers, there are other factors contributing to Apple revenues but it's a good proxy. An iPhone sold in USA generates more revenues overall, being it Apple Store, accessories, laptops, cloud services, music, ... Android market is harder to analyse being more fragmented, but there are a few key points that can be extracted. Only 7% of the global Android market is in USA. Google doesn't make much money from Android, Apple is absolute king of profits here, they are able to extract much more. Largest Android manufacturers are not in USA and that's a reason why in Asia people are switching to locally manufactured devices that can rival with iPhones in term of perceived usefulness at half the price. Apple has a minimal penetration in emerging markets, like for example Africa. We can conclude that what Apple does is still much more relevant in USA and USA is much more relevant for Apple than any other smartphone manufacturer. Ask yourself this question: what would have happened to the market if the M1 was made by Microsoft or Dell/HP/Lenovo? How many more companies would have considered it if it could run Windows out of the box. That's how relevant Apple is in the global market, it's king of profits, it's king of market capitalisation, it makes very good high end devices but as far as the general population is concerned, the M1 won't change much outside of the US.

hesarenu 6y ago

India would be tier 2 or 3. Apple share is less than 5%. Its very rare to see a iphone in the wild.