8 ms·

Sometimes I wonder if I should learn COBOL just so maybe I can get my first real programming job. (and no, I am not joking...)

rhabarba 6y ago
At least they will pay you well.
- melenaboija 6y ago
  And you will not have to deal with the ego of the current programmers that pretend they now everything about any existing programming language, paradigm and technical stack (where I include myself and because that is what is demanded)
  - pletnes 6y ago
    You’ll instead be stuck with devs who ramble on about how the old stuff is best and who needs try/catch and goto is faster than loops etc.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
  - nix23 6y ago
    That is so true!!
- the_af 6y ago
  In my experience, COBOL jobs don't pay particularly well. It's not even true that young people aren't learning it, so you'll have competition, too.
Minor49er 6y ago
Just curious, but why is COBOL the first language that you think about for this?
- speeder 6y ago
  Because I already know: C, C++, Obj-C, C#, Php, Lua, x86 ASM, ARM ASM, Linoleum (some ASM-like esoteric languagE), BASIC (not VB), Java, Python, JS, MushCODE (it is derived from LISP), SQL and some application specific scripting languages. I started coding when I was 8, I am 32 now, and in my government-issued employer list, I had zero employers. My dad knows COBOL and MUMPS, and kept talking about how horrible they are... but maybe I can get a job if I try these.
  - jeroenhd 6y ago
    If you're fluent in all those languages then I doubt COBOL will be your breakthrough. Those high earning COBOL jobs don't pay so well because the programmers are hyper intelligent, they pay well because there's not that many people left that have experience running mainframes. If you've only just mastered COBOL, you'll probably be last in line for any good COBOL job out there. With a portfolio like that, you might want to look at why you can't get a job. You sound capable enough on the technical front, so there must be something else that's preventing you from advancing your career.
  - the_af 6y ago
    If you're having trouble landing a job even though you know all those languages, COBOL won't be the magical solution. It's likely your problem lies elsewhere...
    - read_if_gay_ 6y ago
      Exactly. Adding one more to such a long list probably won't have much impact.
  - rovr138 6y ago
    Most of the interfaces I've seen that interact with COBOL running on mainframes are built with Java. Not sure if this helps, but could also lead into working close/near with mainframes and COBOL.
    - 6y ago
nix23 6y ago
I say YES do it, learn COBOL and Mainframes, don't listen to others who say Mainframe is a thing of the past, it's here to stay. Just talk with leading positions in Insurance/Finance government maybe?, they are more then happy to find someone who is motivated and eager to learn, AND they have the money and time to support and build-you-up (Training mentors certs licenses etc.).
- foobarian 6y ago
  Mainframes are alive and well, they just have new names like AWS, GCP, Azure...
  - nix23 6y ago
    Thanks for showing that you have no clue what a mainframe is.
  - rovr138 6y ago
    No. The architecture of a mainframe is very different.
- 0x445442 6y ago
  I would say from a career path perspective this world seems to offer some advantages in the area of cumulative knowledge acquisition. Whereas the typical career path in The Enterprise one is faced with technology churn every few years. Being in The Enterprise, I find it quite frustrating dealing with the new shiny every few years when there's rarely objective analysis behind being made to do so.
- pbourke 6y ago
  Is it possible to study mainframe programming independently?
  - kjs3 6y ago
    Yup. You can get some hands-on using the Hercules emulator, but it's running old versions of the OSes due to licensing. That can give you the basics, tho, because Mainframe OSes tend to be pretty stable over time. Beyond that, IBM has a ton of educational resources you could leverage. At one time they had a program where you could get an account on a mainframe, but I don't know if they do that any more. Udemy has some mainframe/Cobol tracks. I assume other on-line training does as well. There are a number of colleges that have mainframe focused degree tracks (Columbus State University has one). These days, you could probably find one that does it on-line.
the_af 6y ago
No, don't learn COBOL unless your dream job requires it. You absolutely shouldn't learn COBOL before knowing which job you're aiming for. COBOL isn't an interesting or particularly useful language to learn.
- speeder 6y ago
  I am aiming for any job that has coding in it, and pays well enough to support a large family.
  - the_af 6y ago
    In that case, wouldn't it be better to review which programming job positions pay decently and are open where you live -- or are willing to relocate to -- and see which languages they are asking for? It's unlikely that COBOL will be your top choice. Otherwise you're "putting the cart before the horse", so to speak. Plus listing COBOL in your resume can have a detrimental effect in future job interviews, at least at some companies.
mywittyname 6y ago
If you're first programming job is in COBOL, then getting that second job will be a problem. The technology stack you choose early on is pretty vital to your career growth. A common way of growing your salary early on is to switch jobs every few years. And to do that successfully, you'll want to have a valuable skill-set that hiring managers are looking for. For all the talk around here about "fundamentals" being what makes you employable, my experience shows that is not the case. For example, my company doesn't interview candidates without Javascript on their resume because they want people who know and have worked with it. I think it's a dumb policy, but I have no control to change it.

rhabarba 6y ago

At least they will pay you well.

melenaboija 6y ago
And you will not have to deal with the ego of the current programmers that pretend they now everything about any existing programming language, paradigm and technical stack (where I include myself and because that is what is demanded)
- pletnes 6y ago
  You’ll instead be stuck with devs who ramble on about how the old stuff is best and who needs try/catch and goto is faster than loops etc.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- nix23 6y ago
  That is so true!!
the_af 6y ago
In my experience, COBOL jobs don't pay particularly well. It's not even true that young people aren't learning it, so you'll have competition, too.

Minor49er 6y ago

Just curious, but why is COBOL the first language that you think about for this?

speeder 6y ago
Because I already know: C, C++, Obj-C, C#, Php, Lua, x86 ASM, ARM ASM, Linoleum (some ASM-like esoteric languagE), BASIC (not VB), Java, Python, JS, MushCODE (it is derived from LISP), SQL and some application specific scripting languages. I started coding when I was 8, I am 32 now, and in my government-issued employer list, I had zero employers. My dad knows COBOL and MUMPS, and kept talking about how horrible they are... but maybe I can get a job if I try these.
- jeroenhd 6y ago
  If you're fluent in all those languages then I doubt COBOL will be your breakthrough. Those high earning COBOL jobs don't pay so well because the programmers are hyper intelligent, they pay well because there's not that many people left that have experience running mainframes. If you've only just mastered COBOL, you'll probably be last in line for any good COBOL job out there. With a portfolio like that, you might want to look at why you can't get a job. You sound capable enough on the technical front, so there must be something else that's preventing you from advancing your career.
- the_af 6y ago
  If you're having trouble landing a job even though you know all those languages, COBOL won't be the magical solution. It's likely your problem lies elsewhere...
  - read_if_gay_ 6y ago
    Exactly. Adding one more to such a long list probably won't have much impact.
- rovr138 6y ago
  Most of the interfaces I've seen that interact with COBOL running on mainframes are built with Java. Not sure if this helps, but could also lead into working close/near with mainframes and COBOL.
  - 6y ago

nix23 6y ago

I say YES do it, learn COBOL and Mainframes, don't listen to others who say Mainframe is a thing of the past, it's here to stay. Just talk with leading positions in Insurance/Finance government maybe?, they are more then happy to find someone who is motivated and eager to learn, AND they have the money and time to support and build-you-up (Training mentors certs licenses etc.).

foobarian 6y ago
Mainframes are alive and well, they just have new names like AWS, GCP, Azure...
- nix23 6y ago
  Thanks for showing that you have no clue what a mainframe is.
- rovr138 6y ago
  No. The architecture of a mainframe is very different.
0x445442 6y ago
I would say from a career path perspective this world seems to offer some advantages in the area of cumulative knowledge acquisition. Whereas the typical career path in The Enterprise one is faced with technology churn every few years. Being in The Enterprise, I find it quite frustrating dealing with the new shiny every few years when there's rarely objective analysis behind being made to do so.
pbourke 6y ago
Is it possible to study mainframe programming independently?
- kjs3 6y ago
  Yup. You can get some hands-on using the Hercules emulator, but it's running old versions of the OSes due to licensing. That can give you the basics, tho, because Mainframe OSes tend to be pretty stable over time. Beyond that, IBM has a ton of educational resources you could leverage. At one time they had a program where you could get an account on a mainframe, but I don't know if they do that any more. Udemy has some mainframe/Cobol tracks. I assume other on-line training does as well. There are a number of colleges that have mainframe focused degree tracks (Columbus State University has one). These days, you could probably find one that does it on-line.

the_af 6y ago

No, don't learn COBOL unless your dream job requires it. You absolutely shouldn't learn COBOL before knowing which job you're aiming for. COBOL isn't an interesting or particularly useful language to learn.

speeder 6y ago
I am aiming for any job that has coding in it, and pays well enough to support a large family.
- the_af 6y ago
  In that case, wouldn't it be better to review which programming job positions pay decently and are open where you live -- or are willing to relocate to -- and see which languages they are asking for? It's unlikely that COBOL will be your top choice. Otherwise you're "putting the cart before the horse", so to speak. Plus listing COBOL in your resume can have a detrimental effect in future job interviews, at least at some companies.

mywittyname 6y ago

If you're first programming job is in COBOL, then getting that second job will be a problem. The technology stack you choose early on is pretty vital to your career growth. A common way of growing your salary early on is to switch jobs every few years. And to do that successfully, you'll want to have a valuable skill-set that hiring managers are looking for. For all the talk around here about "fundamentals" being what makes you employable, my experience shows that is not the case. For example, my company doesn't interview candidates without Javascript on their resume because they want people who know and have worked with it. I think it's a dumb policy, but I have no control to change it.