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Maybe people wouldn't so easily believe in alternative narratives if people in power didn't also lie all the time? No one believes in the media anymore for a re

Maybe people wouldn't so easily believe in alternative narratives if people in power didn't also lie all the time? No one believes in the media anymore for a reason. People don't believe in scientists anymore for a reason. People don't believe in most government officials anymore for a reason. You can find many examples of continued and relentless lies from all these classes of people over the years and decades. Is it really a surprise that people will stop listening to them?

gjulianm 6y ago
Social media posts lie all the time, way more than politicians. Why do people believe those?
- adnzzzzZ 6y ago
  That depends on the post. For instance, I believe that democracy is a mistake and we should be ruled by an authoritarian king. You probably believe this to be a lie, and that I'm likely being manipulated by social media. But I believe what I believe through a series of reasonable and logical arguments from my perspective. So why do I believe it? Because it makes sense to me. I would guess that it's the same for everyone else. By trying to prevent this lie from being spread you are rejecting the fact that I reached this conclusion in a valid manner because you don't agree with it.
  - gjulianm 6y ago
    > I believe that democracy is a mistake and we should be ruled by an authoritarian king. You probably believe this to be a lie That's an opinion, not a lie. A lie would be saying "pigs grow on trees", "in a monarchy the king is chosen in an election every four years" or "the earth is flat", to put some examples. > So why do I believe it? Because it makes sense to me. What is it then, people believe lies because it makes sense to them or because other people lie?
    - adnzzzzZ 6y ago
      >What is it then, people believe lies because it makes sense to them or because other people lie? Because reality is not so clear cut as "pigs grow on trees". No one is claiming anything as ludicrous as pigs grow on trees in our political debates. Disagreeing with most of the narrative on climate change is not the same as saying pigs grow on trees, for instance.
      - gjulianm 6y ago
        If reality is not so clear cut, then a constant exposure to lies would not help anyone to better understand it. Which is my point: it's not that people are now trusting an alternative source of information because they lied previously, it's that there's so much misinformation and lies that people don't even know what they can trust, and even basic facts get doubted. That is serious damage for democracy.
        adnzzzzZ 6y ago
        That's fine. Humanity has survived much bigger problems in the past, and I'm sure we'll be able to get by just fine now. And as an added note, as I personally have no appreciation for democracy, in my opinion anything that diminishes its power in people's minds is eminently desirable.

gjulianm 6y ago

Social media posts lie all the time, way more than politicians. Why do people believe those?

adnzzzzZ 6y ago
That depends on the post. For instance, I believe that democracy is a mistake and we should be ruled by an authoritarian king. You probably believe this to be a lie, and that I'm likely being manipulated by social media. But I believe what I believe through a series of reasonable and logical arguments from my perspective. So why do I believe it? Because it makes sense to me. I would guess that it's the same for everyone else. By trying to prevent this lie from being spread you are rejecting the fact that I reached this conclusion in a valid manner because you don't agree with it.
- gjulianm 6y ago
  > I believe that democracy is a mistake and we should be ruled by an authoritarian king. You probably believe this to be a lie That's an opinion, not a lie. A lie would be saying "pigs grow on trees", "in a monarchy the king is chosen in an election every four years" or "the earth is flat", to put some examples. > So why do I believe it? Because it makes sense to me. What is it then, people believe lies because it makes sense to them or because other people lie?
  - adnzzzzZ 6y ago
    >What is it then, people believe lies because it makes sense to them or because other people lie? Because reality is not so clear cut as "pigs grow on trees". No one is claiming anything as ludicrous as pigs grow on trees in our political debates. Disagreeing with most of the narrative on climate change is not the same as saying pigs grow on trees, for instance.
    - gjulianm 6y ago
      If reality is not so clear cut, then a constant exposure to lies would not help anyone to better understand it. Which is my point: it's not that people are now trusting an alternative source of information because they lied previously, it's that there's so much misinformation and lies that people don't even know what they can trust, and even basic facts get doubted. That is serious damage for democracy.
      - adnzzzzZ 6y ago
        That's fine. Humanity has survived much bigger problems in the past, and I'm sure we'll be able to get by just fine now. And as an added note, as I personally have no appreciation for democracy, in my opinion anything that diminishes its power in people's minds is eminently desirable.