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> Most people buying computers don't want flexibility, they want reliability I think this is a correct statement, for the reason that what was once a enthusias

> Most people buying computers don't want flexibility, they want reliability I think this is a correct statement, for the reason that what was once a enthusiast activity (using computers) becomes a necessity, and tolerance of problems reduces drastically when your life/salary depends on it working flawlessly. Imagine saying these things about a dishwasher? Who’d care if the circuitry driving the buttons controlling the pumps etc is proprietary and e waste when it’s dead.

hu3 6y ago
The dishwasher doesn't connect to the internet, doesn't have all my passwords and emails, doesn't access my bank accounts and can't spy on me. This is why I don't care how it works.
- the_af 6y ago
  More importantly, you cannot use a dishwasher to create new things the designers didn't foresee. It's not a general purpose tool but an appliance. That's why the war on general purpose computing is so upsetting: it seeks to turn general purpose tools into appliances.
  - kenjackson 6y ago
    I think the point is that for the vast number of people, PCs are already appliances. It isn’t this change that made them into appliances, it was their natural change in usage - as noted by a previous poster.
    - the_af 6y ago
      For a lot of people -- yes. But this will affect the future programmers and tinkerers, too. It's as if they are no longer wanted. "But, " you could argue, "hobbyists and enthusiasts can buy specialized hardware". Well, many if not most of the generation of enthusiasts that made the computing world of today possible started with general purpose hardware, not special hardware. They took the common hardware of their day and built stuff with it, doing things that were often not entirely foreseen by the makers of said hardware. And they didn't ask for permission. If the world of tomorrow consists of most people using gadgets like iphones and ipads, and in order to tinker you need special-purpose hardware, I think we're shooting future kids in their collective feet.
      - kenjackson 6y ago
        You’re probably right. That said what is an example of something you can’t do note that you could do with more open HW, at a personal level. I get that distributing apps at scale isn’t doable without going through some store . But at a personal level what are the types of things that tinkerers can’t do with a Mac or Arm based PC?
    - bluGill 6y ago
      They are not appliances. When I buy an appliance I expect to know by the marketing brochures in advance exactly what it will do, and I expect it to do exactly that until it wears out. When I buy a phone or game system I expect to install new functions on it: things not even thought about by the manufacture.

hu3 6y ago

The dishwasher doesn't connect to the internet, doesn't have all my passwords and emails, doesn't access my bank accounts and can't spy on me. This is why I don't care how it works.

the_af 6y ago
More importantly, you cannot use a dishwasher to create new things the designers didn't foresee. It's not a general purpose tool but an appliance. That's why the war on general purpose computing is so upsetting: it seeks to turn general purpose tools into appliances.
- kenjackson 6y ago
  I think the point is that for the vast number of people, PCs are already appliances. It isn’t this change that made them into appliances, it was their natural change in usage - as noted by a previous poster.
  - the_af 6y ago
    For a lot of people -- yes. But this will affect the future programmers and tinkerers, too. It's as if they are no longer wanted. "But, " you could argue, "hobbyists and enthusiasts can buy specialized hardware". Well, many if not most of the generation of enthusiasts that made the computing world of today possible started with general purpose hardware, not special hardware. They took the common hardware of their day and built stuff with it, doing things that were often not entirely foreseen by the makers of said hardware. And they didn't ask for permission. If the world of tomorrow consists of most people using gadgets like iphones and ipads, and in order to tinker you need special-purpose hardware, I think we're shooting future kids in their collective feet.
    - kenjackson 6y ago
      You’re probably right. That said what is an example of something you can’t do note that you could do with more open HW, at a personal level. I get that distributing apps at scale isn’t doable without going through some store . But at a personal level what are the types of things that tinkerers can’t do with a Mac or Arm based PC?
  - bluGill 6y ago
    They are not appliances. When I buy an appliance I expect to know by the marketing brochures in advance exactly what it will do, and I expect it to do exactly that until it wears out. When I buy a phone or game system I expect to install new functions on it: things not even thought about by the manufacture.