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I'm wondering what's happening at Microsoft's camp regarding M1. They are in a weird situation. They depend on AMD/Intel to deliver. This is a massive dependen
by emilsedgh 6y ago
I'm wondering what's happening at Microsoft's camp regarding M1.
They are in a weird situation. They depend on AMD/Intel to deliver. This is a massive dependency for Microsoft. Are there other large corporations have this big of a dependency?
I understand that Microsoft's revenue is shifting towards cloud, services, etc. But I think Windows is still "the" key to a lot of those offerings. Take a massive chunk of market share from Windows and I'm pretty much sure all those services will have a hit too.
What are their options?
- vbezhenar 6y agoI don't understand why do they need on AMD/Intel to deliver? Their ARM build is an insurance against this dependency.
- codeulike 6y agoBusinesses above a certain size overwhelmingly use pcs unless they are in specific arty sectors. M1 won't change that, or at least not rapidly. I think Microsoft have 5 or 6 different lines of business that bring in billions or more of revenue: windows, cloud, gaming, office/productivity and surface. They are the most diversified of the big players.
- _the_inflator 6y agoYep. Folks here don't care, if their Business Software runs whatsoever or is whatsoever faster as long as it is cheap on a per unit basis. There is no such thing as ROI in Excel tables for controllers in my company. ;)
- oblio 6y agoTotally agreed. I'd also want to add something for this: > Businesses above a certain size overwhelmingly use pcs unless they are in specific arty sectors. M1 won't change that, or at least not rapidly. Besides the fact, which many HN users working for FAANGS or startups don't encounter, that big enterprises are both rigid and also quite locked into the Microsoft/Windows/Office mono culture, big companies tend to have very elaborate purchasing processes. Things with just 1 vendor tend to be completely ignored, if they're meant to be used throughout the company. There is a certain irony with my previous paragraph, but Microsoft stuff is usually grandfathered in, the rules for new acquisitions don't apply to them. On top of that Microsoft has super solid backwards/forwards compatibility, migration paths and an amazing history of working with enterprises, as much as they are hated especially by the Open Source community for other things. So you can expect ARM Macs to be adopted and used, but most likely frowned upon by IT departments and CIOs if too many people want them. With Intel they can have a bidding process or at least a product comparison between Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc. With Apple it's... just Apple. Also Apple's B2B side is super underpowered and their history is very chequered due to their frequent breaking changes.
- drevil-v2 6y agoI have seen that business orgs within an enterprise with their own P/L usually end up doing an end-run around IT and just buy MacBooks from suppliers or directly from Apple. Funnily enough, both times I saw this happen (at a large bank and later at a utility company) the only thing we needed from IT was network access and a Windows VM license so that we could run the god awful company payroll app that required IE11 to work. Once a week dozens of very highly paid devs and SREs would boot up a Windows SOE VM, login to the domain, start the payroll app, enter in five rows of data and shutdown. What a waste of time and money.
- withinboredom 6y ago> What are their options? Windows supports a lot of devices. It’s likely that every single driver would need to be ported. I don’t see that happening. Granted, I have almost no idea what I’m talking about. Just my thoughts.
- mythz 6y agoMS have declared Windows 10 as the "last version of windows" [1] as it's essentially transitioning into a free serviced OS like macOS and ChromeOS which after the initial OEM license cost will be receiving free updates indefinitely. MS have been monetizing it as an additional ad platform for its other products & services like One Drive/Office 365/Edge, etc. which I frequently see popup. In that light it makes sense for them to support ARM/M1 and as a goal have as many installations of Windows as possible as Google does with their OS's. [1] https://www.theverge.com/2015/5/7/8568473/windows-10-last-version-of-windows https://www.theverge.com/2015/5/7/8568473/windows-10-last-ve...
- oaiey 6y agoFor sure they will support ARM chips. They also see the performance comparison curves.
- Hamuko 6y ago>What are their options? Well, selling Windows for ARM to non-OEMs would be a good start. Apple could then allow for Bootcamp on their new ARM Macs.
- dvfjsdhgfv 6y agoLooking at their past actions, Apple will do everything, legally and technically, to prevent Microsoft or anyone else from "commoditizing" not only their hardware but also software. Yes you can build a hackintosh yourself, but if you try to sell it, Apple will intervene. Also, technically there is no problem with running macOS on VMware, but you need a patch like Unlocker specifically for that purpose. Their money comes from a high level of control, they won't give it away without a fight.
- pjmlp 6y agoOnly on HN bubble does it matter. Apple devices are out of budget for most countries, and they only own 10% of the worldwide market share in computing. Outside desktop, Android owns the mobile market. Really, it is just US analysts going crazy with M1.
- emilsedgh 6y agoM1 can accelerate the shift of home users to Macs. Microsoft devices are already out-fashioned by apple. The Windows UX is also subpar comparing to Apple. Now the hardware is also gonna completely fall behind. If all the young people get mac's for their home computers, will the next generations use Windows at workplace? Im talking about 10-20 years landscape for Windows and Office.
- myaccount275 6y agoI find the macOS UX to be inferior compared to Windows. This is mostly a matter of habit, and what people are used to and how they expect things to behave.
- tokamak-teapot 6y agoI haven't noticed much acknowledgement of sole traders, as they're called in the UK. Very often when I see someone who's working for themselves they have a Macbook Air. While they're more expensive to buy new than many Windows laptops, the general sentiment from those I've spoken to seems to be: * It's worth the extra money for more reliable operation and fewer worries about malware. * Buying used is much less of a lottery. They tend not to have hidden problems. * Selling used means you actually get some return to put towards your next device. I see people using Office and Chrome or Safari - and not much else.
- the-enterprise 6y agoThis same narrative has been touted for many decades now. I have heard it for 20+ years, yet the rate of windows usage in the quantifiable sense remains has varied only slightly.
- tonyedgecombe 6y agoThey depend on AMD/Intel to deliver. This is a massive dependency for Microsoft. The moat that Win32 provides has been eroding for a long time. That's why Microsoft has shifted their focus to the cloud. This technology might slow things a little but the writing is on the wall. Most enterprises want to deliver software through a browser, the last thing they want to do is install software on the client. My customers have been telling me this for two decades now. They don't even like having Office run locally, they will drop it as soon as the browser version is viable. Microsoft will be fine, they appear to be a long way along that journey already. I'm not so sure about Intel though. It's in Microsoft's interest for processors to become a commodity product. They would be over the moon if the competition sucked all the profits out of AMD/Intel. The people who should be most worried though are the HP/Lenovo/Dells of this world. They have been happy to be carried along on the coat tails of WinTel for decades now. They will struggle to adapt to this new world.
- wffurr 6y agoAMD is delivering. Not at the same power and performance levels as the M1, but at least competitive unlike Intel's latest. I expect to see a whole raft of design wins for AMD from the major OEMs this year.
- neogodless 6y agoMicrosoft does not exactly need Intel or AMD. For Windows, which is massively popular, they just need hardware that runs it well. Right now, the best hardware for Windows includes x86 CPUs from AMD/Intel and GPUs from Nvidia/AMD. If Apple releases Silicon that begins to dominate in other areas by enough of a lead that it can't be ignored by purchasers, then Microsoft could start to sweat, assuming no one finds the hole in the market tempting enough. So I would think the real question is how long will it take for competitors to step up their CPU efficiency. Intel has ground to a halt, essentially, on the efficiency front. They continue to struggle with process improvements, and have had to do some tricky engineering to work within the constraints of an older process, while also having to settle for increasing power demands. AMD has been fairly relentless in their forward march over the past 3-4 years, improving efficiency on their x86 chips. The next couple of years are going to be very telling how well that march of progress competes with Apple's march with their ARM-based CPUs. There's still so much popularity in the Windows/x86 space that AMD likely doesn't feel overwhelmingly threatened, but one would imagine they do not have their collective heads in the sand, because they are still a market underdog. They cannot risk resting on their laurels while Intel catches up, and they are likely very well aware of Apple's thrust into the competitive CPU landscape. Whether they must switch to ARM to remain competitive is not yet clear, but will be in time.
- liminal 6y agoI'm expecting them to follow suit with bespoke silicon. They are already doing this in a limited sense with the Surface X. I bet Apple has now really lit a fire under them
- x87678r 6y agoI think MS is in trouble. Nearly everyone's home computer just runs Chrome now. Work PCs are going the same direction. Even developers can probably rely on a SSH and RDP to a server running anything. Android tablets are selling for about the same price as Windows license.
- supernovae 6y agoPC/Laptop and Microsoft are thriving. You can't even buy a modern GPU from AMD or Nvidia and Ryzen cpus are sold out everywhere - and there is a massive new console launch with X86 on new Xbox and PS5. Windows has supported ARM for a while and they have a nice arm device right now. New mobile Ryzen chips are extremely fast and efficient. X86 isn't going anywhere. If Apple is successful putting algorithms into silicon for micro efficiencies Intel/AMD/Microsoft aren't going to sit idly by.
- x87678r 6y agoGood point on the consoles. I'm just thinking about my office and seeing thousands of new PCs bought every year. We're now getting more terminals and virtualized PCs running on servers. There isn't much reason to stay x86.